[909]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironbut So are the changes in the second run going to be cosmetic only or did he say that there are internal changes also. The last time I got an email from Craig, he said that I should contact him the last week of this month to get details on putting a deposit on a ZD. Maybe it'll have a halloween motif!

As much as I know, he only discussed cosmetic changes in passing (showing me a very cool looking new faceplate and telling me about a few other neat cosmetic changes), so I don't think there is going to be any internal changes until he runs out of the custom moth output caps. I think he has enough to make an additional 40 or more ZDs.

 

[purk]

Quote:

There are just some I prefer over others for a variety of reasons. The problems start when we speak in absolutes, to steal a term from above (that was not meant to comment on either 909 or sacdlovers posts).

Part of that is true..... but, after I bought the SLAM adapter and some 5687s, the improvement on my SDS is quite substantial....so Earls's comment on the MPX3-6sn7 and MPX3-Slam is pretty valid for me. I wish I can hear the ZD one day too.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk Part of that is true..... but, after I bought the SLAM adapter and some 5687s, the improvement on my SDS is quite substantial....so Earls's comment on the MPX3-6sn7 and MPX3-Slam is pretty valid for me. I wish I can hear the ZD one day too.

What is absolute for you is not for others. The point is that Earl's comment or anyone elses, may not be valid for everyone.

 

[purk]

Quote:

What is absolute for you is not for others. The point is that Earl's comment or anyone elses, may not be valid for everyone.

I believe he merely said that you have to compare apple to apple. The MPX3-6SN7 is not as good as the SLAM configuration. You can also go one step further by 6BL7 tubes.

 

[augustwest]

"At the Marin, CA meet last weekend, IIRC, Craig told me that he had to increase the price of the Zana by a couple hundred dollars because he now has to contract out their assembly. He said he no longer had 40 hours to build each one."

If this is true? It would seem to raise another question for a potential buyer. How do you feel about your supposed "custom" amp being "out sourced" to a "brown box" manufacturer? What does that mean in terms of repair should it be necessary, or spare parts, or the consistency of the build and parts being used. At the $1900 price point do you expect your custom amp to actually be "custom" built, meaning being not only being designed by the builder, but assembled by him/her too? . . . . .How does that effect it's value in your eyes? Is it really even a "custom amp" any longer?

This raises many issues both negative, and positive potentially. What are your feelings about the pros's & con's?


- augustwest

 

[tagosaku]

If SLAM configuration means using 5687 as output, I disagree. Can't comment on running 6BL7 at higher voltage, but 6SN7 output works better than 5687 for me. Though I am curious if anyone has tried 12xx7 as output, which should be a separate thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk The MPX3-6SN7 is not as good as the SLAM configuration. You can also go one step further by 6BL7 tubes.

 

[tyrion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "At the Marin, CA meet last weekend, IIRC, Craig told me that he had to increase the price of the Zana by a couple hundred dollars because he now has to contract out their assembly. He said he no longer had 40 hours to build each one." If this is true? It would seem to raise another question for a potential buyer. How do you feel about your supposed "custom" amp being "out sourced" to a "brown box" manufacturer? What does that mean in terms of repair should it be necessary, or spare parts, or the consistency of the build and parts being used. At the $1900 price point do you expect your custom amp to actually be "custom" built, meaning being not only being designed by the builder, but assembled by him/her too? . . . . .How does that effect it's value in your eyes? Is it really even a "custom amp" any longer? This raises many issues both negative, and positive potentially. What are your feelings about the pros's & con's? - augustwest

I never felt it was a custom amp. The people building the amps according Craig are experienced at this and will allow there to be consistency through the entire production run. I would rather have someone building the amps that do this day in and day out then someone doing the building when time is available or at all hours of the day and night because they are so busy. I am no expert on building an amp but having seen a number of point to point wired amps, the ZD in NorCal (mine) looked pretty clean. I believe the value of the initial two runs will be enhanced as the price goes up to it's final point. As I understand it, this amp should be selling for more than either of the first two runs.

 

[Voltron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustwest "At the Marin, CA meet last weekend, IIRC, Craig told me that he had to increase the price of the Zana by a couple hundred dollars because he now has to contract out their assembly. He said he no longer had 40 hours to build each one." If this is true? It would seem to raise another question for a potential buyer. How do you feel about your supposed "custom" amp being "out sourced" to a "brown box" manufacturer? What does that mean in terms of repair should it be necessary, or spare parts, or the consistency of the build and parts being used. At the $1900 price point do you expect your custom amp to actually be "custom" built, meaning being not only being designed by the builder, but assembled by him/her too? . . . . .How does that effect it's value in your eyes? Is it really even a "custom amp" any longer? This raises many issues both negative, and positive potentially. What are your feelings about the pros's & con's? - augustwest

I'm sure these questions are asked sincerely, but they seem tilted toward an answer and they are not based on correct assumptions, to my knowledge. Like tyrion, I don't remember the ZD being advertised as a "custom amp" either. The fact that Craig provides the circuit design, the components (some proprietary) and the chassis to someone who then assembles the amps does not change anything about it other than the person doing the soldering. This is not some overseas operation using their own parts, which is something a potential buyer would learn from Craig if interested. Craig mentioned this weekend that the people he is working with do mostly military contracts, so I don't think they can be described as a "brown box" manufacturer either (whatever that means). Indeed, given that they work at such a high level, the work should be at least as good as Craig could do by himself because they are just assembling amps, not designing them. I am also sure Craig will be the point person for all service and parts.

Mikhail doesn't build the SinglePower amps himself, and the only difference is he has employees building them rather than an outside contractor. To my mind it does not change the value at all, and makes it possible for the cost to the purchaser to be kept in control.

It's great that some well-deserved attention is getting paid to the Eddie Current line and that was one reason I invited Craig up to our meet this last weekend. I was thrilled he came and loved his amps. The unfortunate side of this interest is that it seems like camps are lining up for a new amp war. This comment honestly is not directed to augustwest or any other individual, but why does this always happen? I personally have an MPX3 (and a much bigger SinglePower amp on the way) and I do not own any Eddie Current or Moth products (other than the little LunchBox not built by EC), so I certainly have predisposition to "side with" Craig. I just think honest and accurate information should be exchanged without a lot of position-taking.

**CLIMBS DOWN FROM SOAPBOX**

Carry on.

 

[granodemostasa]

honestly, augustwest.... i couldn't care less.

 

[PATB]

I am sure both amps will be more than good enough for most of us. I too am looking forward to getting an EC one of these days.

As for me, the allure of the Singlepowers is the ability to tailor them to your needs. This is very important to me at the $2K level. Tuberolling is a big deal for me as I have different favorite headphones, with different requirements (the HD650 tubeset is not necessarily the best for the RS-1 or Qualia, etc.). Second is the ability to customize the amp to match my needs. I listen to low levels and can't stand the move the pot a little and it gets too loud. My Meridian also has hot outputs, so the amp needs to match my source. I want an amp with particular attenuator curves, etc. Singlepower will allow you to customize an MPX3. Tuberolling and customization weren't important to me when I first found this hobby. In the beginning, I was looking for simplicity and resale value (custom amps may not suit everyone). But now that I am willing to spend more than $1K for an amp, the amp better be exactly the way I want it.

 

[F1GTR]

I'm eager to hear the ZD with my HP2's and PS1's. The reviews/impressions sound glorious.

It's all up to the sound of course; however, aesthetically I would lean towards the ZD all day long. The SP units have always bored me with their appearance and felt mass produced, kind of like this Wal-Mart feel to them. I've still yet to hear a SP offering and look forward to doing so at a future meet. Their over-abundance, IMO, of options/upgrades has always kept me clear from ordering one. Well that, and I also discovered the power of Melos.

 

[granodemostasa]

i think you'll also have to realize that the ZD is several hundred dollars more than list price since Craig does not provide tubes..... and hunting tubes can be a fustrating experience

 

[F1GTR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by granodemostasa and hunting tubes can be a fustrating experience

Yes it can be. I feel for you regarding those 6SL7's.

Try and see the positive in all of this though. Even though it is agonizing having the ZD staring at you, it will be that much more rewarding once you finally do power it up. The best things in life come to those that are patient. I'm looking forward to your impressions.

 

[909]

As far as I know, Craig checks each ZD personally then does extensive testing as well as running them for hours on end in his shop before shipment to ensure quality and consistency. Craig could have just kept this to himself, but instead is being upfront about it. As has been said, Mikhail has employees building SP amps and I assume other manufacturers don’t personally build every single amp they sell; however, I wonder if they are as willing to disclose this fact.

 

[augustwest]

"I just think honest and accurate information should be exchanged without a lot of position-taking."

That's what I think too, that why I was curious about every-ones thoughts on this.

"Craig mentioned this weekend that the people he is working with do mostly military contracts, so I don't think they can be described as a "brown box" manufacturer either (whatever that means)."

"brown box manufacture" is not a negative connotation, it just suggested what you described, that he has contracted the work out. Actually much military contract work is done "off shore", it doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with it.

"I never felt it was a custom amp."

I always looked at the ZD as being a "custom amp" , it's interesting to learn that you, and maybe others do not.

"honestly, augustwest.... i couldn't care less."

"As far as I know, Craig checks each ZD personally then does extensive testing as well as running them for hours on end in his shop before shipment to ensure quality and consistency. Craig could have just kept this to himself, but instead is being upfront about it. As has been said, Mikhail has employees building SP amps and I assume other manufacturers don’t personally build every single amp they sell; however, I wonder if they are as willing to disclose this fact."


Excellent, thank you all for your input. It's been quite enlightening and informative.



- augustwest