[TexasBuck]

Quote:

optical isn't the best connection. you might want to try an optical to coaxial converter. the sabre DAC chip is tempermental, and i've read of a couple people having trouble with optical connections if not with the yulong, with another sabre based DAC. in general, optical sucks because it's more jitter prone. i couldn't get my TV's optical out to work at all and was annoyed that it doesn't have a coax. i think there are optical to coax converters out there very cheap. i seem to recall one particular one being popular but didn't pay much attention as tosilink only is never an option for any piece of gear for me.

I think I'm going to try this:  http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12195987
 
Hopefully, this will at least show that the D18 works correctly.  If I like the sound signature of the D18, perhaps I can get something higher quality.  (Or maybe the Yulong U18 USB converter)

 

[budget minded]

hey, that looks like a dirt cheap solution, and an easy return if your DAC still doesn't work. i only buy things from radio shack if they're name brand like my sandisk media player or as a last resort. i hope you get your DAC to work. if it does, maybe an even better solution would be to get a jitter reducing unit that also does conversion. i think the price of those has come down a lot, and you can still probably get $30 DVD players that should have co-ax out at department and electronic stores, but don't expect a lot out of those either. i returned the one i bought as it caused noise on my TV just by being plugged into the wall.
 

 

[TexasBuck]

More fail.  Same result going through the coaxial connection.  D18 is going back today.  Grant Fidelity is going to test the unit to see if it's faulty.  If it is, they'll send me a new one.  If it's not faulty, then it's over.  On to something else.

 

[TheGrumpyOldMan]

Maybe I should chip in at this point, having had similar experiences. The most important thing to know is that in its purist approach, the D18 seems to have ZERO jitter rejection. So the digital source and cable have to provide that, which is not as obvious as it seems. And I'm not talking about perceived "sound quality" changes, but about very obvious clicks or drop-outs during playback (keep an eye on the blue led on the front panel)
 
- I have an expensive Cambridge Audio dock, and was not able to get a clean signal out of it beyond 16/44.1. Seriously, even 16/48 (the iPod can "read" 24/48 files but only processes a 16-bit signal) had drop-outs, not on CA's own DACmagic (with some built-in jitter correction), or the M-DAC's adjustable one, but noticeable on the D18, whether through optical or coax. The Pure i-20 dock, at 1/3 the price: no problem with any files (same cable)!
 
- I just got an AK100 HD player. Using my current optical cable, I can stably pipe through 24/192 to my small, kinda cheap Fiio E17, no dropouts or anything. It must have some level of jitter correction. Because when using the same cable with the much more expensive D18, there are constant dropouts at that bandwidth, and with the longer cable of the same make absolutely no sound anymore. Up to 24/176.4 no problem though, not even a single dropout. So in this case the limitation is the optical cable, since shorter works better at maximum bandwidth, at least on the D18. Again, no problem at any bandwidth on the cheaper E17. (Can't use coax, of course. And tried using a TOSlink-Mini adapter with a glass cable, fuggedaboutit...)
 
So, in short, I'm not sure your D18 is defective as such, but it is SO frickin' picky about the source stream it's a real PITA... Though in my case, almost all my HD material is 24/96 (the supposed optical max. standard) which plays back fine on every combination of devices. I only keep a few tracks in the more oddball combinations mostly for testing as described above..

 

[budget minded]

optical is the worst possible digital transmission medium short of morse code maybe.
 

 

[mrcasey]

Quote:

optical is the worst possible digital transmission medium short of morse code maybe.
 

 
 
In the defense of morse code, I am not sure that is a fair statement.  Have you actually compared the two?  Morse might actually be better that optical?

 

[TheGrumpyOldMan]

I wouldn't go that far; in all honesty I had the exact same issues with coax when that was an option with the same components, the D18 is just that sensitive.
 
IMHO, any decent digital cable is usually trouble-free, and with all the obsession with jitter around here, I personally have not heard any particular difference between digital interconnects of varying type (incl. AES/EBU) or make, after trying at this point at least a half-dozen transport & DAC combos of varying prices (beyond actual audible defects as described in my previous post) So many other factors have a much bigger impact on SQ.
 
Again, I'm not a hung up on optical as the "best" option, but one practical benefit of optical for instance is complete electrical isolation (incl. EMI & RFI interference) without having rely on the component manufacturers to provide it in-device (if properly designed, at extra cost usually)

 

[mrcasey]

Quote:

I wouldn't go that far; in all honesty I had the exact same issues with coax when that was an option with the same components, the D18 is just that sensitive.
 
IMHO, any decent digital cable is usually trouble-free, and with all the obsession with jitter around here, I personally have not heard any particular difference between digital interconnects of varying type (incl. AES/EBU) or make, after trying at this point at least a half-dozen transport & DAC combos of varying prices (beyond actual audible defects as described in my previous post) So many other factors have a much bigger impact on SQ.
 
Again, I'm not a hung up on optical as the "best" option, but one practical benefit of optical for instance is complete electrical isolation without having rely on the component manufacturers to provide it in-device (if properly designed, at extra cost usually)

 
I was just playing around with my comment.
 
I had a few struggles at first setting up my D18. In the beginning I could not get the D18 to play (using JRiver through 2 different laptops) without constantly dropping out. Both optical out from my computer and using a Consonance USB to SPDIF converter gave me the same results.  I spent many hours trying all kinds of tweaks and settings to no avail.
 
Eventually I bought another DAC (Consonance DLinear 8) for my 2 channel set up. It worked great with the USB converter.
 
For my headphone setup I purchased a Logitech SBT and fed the signal (24/96 and 24/192) via coax to the D18 and it has work flawlessly.
 
The D18 has now migrated to my portable set up and I am using the Yulong U18 with it now. No issues, no drop outs.
 
The D18 can indeed tend towards being fussy but once you find a signal it wants to work with it seems to be quite solid (and worth the effort)from that point on.

 

[TheGrumpyOldMan]

No problem, and sorry to hear about your troubles, just wanted to let you and others reading this thread know that you're not alone.
 
And I'm glad you found a combo that works for you. I think when the D18 is working right, it does indeed sound... just right.

 

[TexasBuck]

Quote:

So, in short, I'm not sure your D18 is defective as such, but it is SO frickin' picky about the source stream it's a real PITA.

Deleted.  Edited below.

 

[TexasBuck]

Quote:

I agree with this.  I'm betting Grant Fidelity is going to say it's fine.   You are also right about the blue LED light cutting out.  I was tempted to order the Yulong U18 but that would be another $250 (with external power supply) with no guaranty everything would work.  Time is also a factor (30 day return policy) and long shipping times don't help matters.  Bottom line is:  It doesn't work for me, so I'm cutting my losses.  Actually, my losses will likely grow because I'm going to start looking into the Burson Conductor. 

 

[preproman]

So is Yulong planning on adding some kind of jitter rejections to the internal digital inputs?  I have the U18 and was planning on getting the D18.  But with no added jitter rejection in the DAC itself I don't know..

 

[TheGrumpyOldMan]

I doubt it. Straight from the horse's mouth, as the saying goes:

Manufacturer's Special Notes: 
This Sabre D18 is designed for high quality digital input signal only. The coaxial digital input will only lock on with standard high quality SPDIF signal then the DAC chip can sample it at 192kHz properly. Many household digital players on the market such as DVD players do not provide a standard SPDIF signal so the coaxial input on Sabre D18 will show non-locking from time to time. This is not a defect of Sabre D18. We suggest users to upgrade input signal quality to fully benefit from the high end decoding in the Sabre D18.

However, since mrcasey above wrote he's using a U18 without problems, you should be OK... Also, from GF/Yulong's U18 page:

It is at the same quality level of the Yulong Sabre reference series and match perfectly with the Yulong Sabre D18 32bit DAC.

 

[mrcasey]

Both U18 and Logitech SBT work flawlessly with D18, regardless of sample rate.  I was using Coax out with SBT.  I am currently using AES/EBU out from U18.

 

[preproman]

How about the V-Link 192?