[project86]

Quote:

What is that price 

6200 Yuan.... I had a friend arrange the purchase and shipping, so it translated to just over $1000 USD at the time. I think the conversion has changed a little since then, in favor of the Yuan.
 
If they sold directly and shipped worldwide, I imagine it would be a tad more to cover for shipping and such. But still relatively low considering the pedigree and functionality of this device, and compared to the competing stuff out there (Bryston).

 

[WillianDiesel]

Got my D18, not that much experience with these Hifi converters, just had an Essence STX on this area before this one.
 
But i have experience with Pro Audio converters of hi end level, the D18 its top on this area IMO, its not completelly clean like some of the converters mostly used on Pro audio.
 
But this is great for me, just makes producing a more enjoyable process, this is not meaning the sound is hyped, the reverb tails and background sounds come very 3D and the unit puts out all the unbalance of some mixes with the big separation between instruments, this sabre chip is very fast and detailed, i supose the small hype on the highs is due to the amp stage on the end since its not directly coupled.
 
The highs are like butter making you be able to listen a lot without hurting and the bass is just tight with the exact decay on notes, making the instruments sound just real, no traces of the grainy highs you start finding when you go down on budget stuff, i really like flat stuff with a bit of hifi highs as on very flat sounding converters you end up putting the high down in a mix thinking they are too powerful, but in fact almots all the systems will translate with more hifi highs and when/if you do this the sound ends up a bit darker in the mix ( this is just thinking in a pro audio perspective ).
 
I use a pair of focal Solo 6be here and plan to upgrade to a pair of SM9 in the near future, these monitors are very fast and flat so anything that doenst follow up them will easilly be shown.
Have lots of cans from akg, sennheiser, beyerdynamic, etc and will be trying will all that in the near future.
 
Only complain is not with the product itself, but the unit is very sensible with voltage variations. And the Voltage quality is very bad in Brazil, im getting a regulator/protector to help on this.
 

 

[slackman]

Quote:

Got my D18, not that much experience with these Hifi converters, just had an Essence STX on this area before this one.
 
But i have experience with Pro Audio converters of hi end level, the D18 its top on this area IMO, its not completelly clean like some of the converters mostly used on Pro audio.
 
But this is great for me, just makes producing a more enjoyable process, this is not meaning the sound is hyped, the reverb tails and background sounds come very 3D and the unit puts out all the unbalance of some mixes with the big separation between instruments, this sabre chip is very fast and detailed, i supose the small hype on the highs is due to the amp stage on the end since its not directly coupled.
 
The highs are like butter making you be able to listen a lot without hurting and the bass is just tight with the exact decay on notes, making the instruments sound just real, no traces of the grainy highs you start finding when you go down on budget stuff, i really like flat stuff with a bit of hifi highs as on very flat sounding converters you end up putting the high down in a mix thinking they are too powerful, but in fact almots all the systems will translate with more hifi highs and when/if you do this the sound ends up a bit darker in the mix ( this is just thinking in a pro audio perspective ).
 

Hi Willian,
 
I had a very different view on using the D18 for producing.
The highs are so smooth you're not going to hear it when you mess up with your production.
In other words, the D18 will make things sound good that won't sound good on many other systems. It's not transparent in an honest way.
Btw, I did not find the highs hyped at all, the contrary in fact, besides being smooth I found the D18 a bit warm overall.
I have read several times that the Focals have hyped highs (and a bump in the mids) so perhaps that's what you're hearing?
 

 

[WillianDiesel]

Sorry, i mean hyped on the hifi side, just like you ( darker sounding by lowing down the highs ), of course this is all about perception and the ways you like to listen/work, but we are thinking the same here.
 
I think the low end and mids are crystal clear IMO, the DAC is just a bit darker sounding on the highs, and this is over 7, 8k.
 
Ive had several cans and monitors/speakers and the focals are very neutral, they are easy on the ear cause the woofer is really fast and the berilium tweeter has the resonance curve way over what the ear can perceive, taking out any grainy/overwhelming perception of the sound that generally causes ear fatigue on a lot of systems.
 
 
These Focals are far from the best too, im looking into gettting the SM9 to upgrade as soon as they realease them on the Street.
 

 

[Somnambulist]

Not to get too off topic but I have the CMS50's and got to 'audition' (i.e. listen to and cry because they were too big for my desk/expensive) the Twin 6 BEs. Awesome speakers.

 

[spacemanrick]

OK here is the update after listening to the Yulong and Grant Fidelity dac and burning them both in for a few more weeks.

As I listened more to the Yulong I found that it was indeed extremely smooth, and took the edge off the music, and was non fatiguing but I also found that it seemed to take off a bit too much of the vibrancy of the music in the higher frequencies. Those amazing diamond tweeters in my B&W 802D speakers seemed to have a bit too much of the sparkle taken off and smoothed out by the Yulong dac. If your system is bright and you want to tame the highs and bring out the midrange and bass then this is the Dac for you.

The more I listened to the Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11 (and the more it was burned in) the more I found that for my system it seemed to strike a little better balance smoothing out the music and taking some of the edge off of the music while also retaining the dynamics and brilliance of the higher frequencies as well as nice solid bass. I find that for a lot of older rock and pop music which sound very thin and that was not recorded very well, the GF dac fills out the music very nicely and adds a nice warmth to the music. Compared to the original dac in the squeezebox touch the GF dac was more listenable for longer periods at a louder volume and took some of the harshness off some of the treble for some songs. For those songs that were recorded well that did not have any harshness on the squeezebox dac, the music still sounded great with the GF dac with the soundstage moved further back and further away.

In conclusion, in my system, I think the $325 spent on the GF dac was a very nice overall improvement to my sound system. I have since returned the Yulong dac to Grant Fidelity and I have kept the GF Tube Dac 11. The next upgrade on my path to improving my 2 channel music room is 2 bass traps in the front corners and then that should be it....at least for a while

 

[project86]

Quote:

OK here is the update after listening to the Yulong and Grant Fidelity dac and burning them both in for a few more weeks.

As I listened more to the Yulong I found that it was indeed extremely smooth, and took the edge off the music, and was non fatiguing but I also found that it seemed to take off a bit too much of the vibrancy of the music in the higher frequencies. Those amazing diamond tweeters in my B&W 802D speakers seemed to have a bit too much of the sparkle taken off and smoothed out by the Yulong dac. If your system is bright and you want to tame the highs and bring out the midrange and bass then this is the Dac for you.

The more I listened to the Grant Fidelity Tube Dac 11 (and the more it was burned in) the more I found that for my system it seemed to strike a little better balance smoothing out the music and taking some of the edge off of the music while also retaining the dynamics and brilliance of the higher frequencies as well as nice solid bass. I find that for a lot of older rock and pop music which sound very thin and that was not recorded very well, the GF dac fills out the music very nicely and adds a nice warmth to the music. Compared to the original dac in the squeezebox touch the GF dac was more listenable for longer periods at a louder volume and took some of the harshness off some of the treble for some songs. For those songs that were recorded well that did not have any harshness on the squeezebox dac, the music still sounded great with the GF dac with the soundstage moved further back and further away.

In conclusion, in my system, I think the $325 spent on the GF dac was a very nice overall improvement to my sound system. I have since returned the Yulong dac to Grant Fidelity and I have kept the GF Tube Dac 11. The next upgrade on my path to improving my 2 channel music room is 2 bass traps in the front corners and then that should be it....at least for a while

Nice post, thanks! 
 
I'll be covering the TubeDAC-11 in depth when time permits. I'm glad it works for you and your system, seems like a really good buy. 
 

 

[Grant Fidelity]

Quote:

The next upgrade on my path to improving my 2 channel music room is 2 bass traps in the front corners and then that should be it....at least for a while

 
Don't forget tube rolls too! http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=398070&page=2, you've just scratched the surface of what the 11 can do on the Tube Outs. And don't forget you have 3 different outputs that you run at the same time all with completely different sonic signatures.
 
The other person doing the side by side trial returned the TubeDAC-11 and kept the Yulong, he was running a high-end tube system. Lots of tube system owners seem to be going with the Yulong D-18. Too bad you didn't try running the D-18 thru the TubeDAC-11 analog inputs for fun
 
Look forward to your thoughts on the TubeDAC-11 project86, hopefully you will dig deep into it and explore all the different features.
 
Cheers,
Ian

 

[customNuts]

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You wouldn't be the first one to get lost in the "Audio GD shuffle". I really loved the Ref 7 when I had it, but I haven't picked up any of their other models because it moves so fast. I'm probably missing out.... but who wants to buy something that is immediately discontinued or replaced with an upgrade? 

 

I haven't heard anything. I think the D18 was priority, and now that it is complete we should see progress on the amp. That's how it went down with the D100/A100 releases. 
 

@project86 can you give a brief comparison between your ref 7 & the D18?? I recently bought the ref 7.1 and was considering getting the d18 also for a different flavour. Would love to know if they are at least on similar levels??
 
 

 

[project86]

Quote:

@project86 can you give a brief comparison between your ref 7 & the D18?? I recently bought the ref 7.1 and was considering getting the d18 also for a different flavour. Would love to know if they are at least on similar levels??
 
 

I'm working on the full review, which will have that comparison in more depth. I'm waiting for Yulong (the man himself) to get back from vacation so he can answer some questions about the design, and then I'll have it posted. Probably within the next week or so.
 
In short - the D18 is similar to the Ref 7 in lots of ways (dynamics, overall frequency extension, midrange clarity, and many other aspects). Where they differ is in the top end presentation. Where the Ref 7 seems smooth and slightly forgiving (compared to some other DACs with similar price tags), the D18 takes it up a notch or two with "really smooth, and very forgiving". This could be good or bad depending on your system and preferences. Note that it is still relative - the D18 won't turn a Justin Timberlake track into a Reference Recordings masterpiece.... but it will be somewhat less grating (the recording anyway, maybe not the music). 
 
So the Ref 7/7.1 units are probably doing music more accurately, and the D18 is "making it sound better". I would probably choose the Ref 7 if all I listened to was HDtracks downloads, and I'd choose the D18 if all I listened to was Redbook quality indie bands, modern pop music, or poorly done albums of music that I actually like (Red Hot Chili Peppers for example). But the D18 sounds damn good with quality recordings too. Both DACs are a mixture of musicality and pure technical ability, but the ratios of each are different. 
 
I'd let you borrow mine but you are overseas so it would be a hassle. I think Grant Fidelity ships free to Australia though, and they have a 30 day trial. So it would just cost you the price of return shipping if you didn't like it. 

 

[customNuts]

That's really helpful and awfully generous of you project86. Sounds like its a little closer in performance than I expected after all. Nice.
I think I'll check out grant fidelity.
Looking forward to you review & thanks again. 

 

[project86]

Quote:

That's really helpful and awfully generous of you project86. Sounds like its a little closer in performance than I expected after all. Nice.
I think I'll check out grant fidelity.
Looking forward to you review & thanks again. 

No problem! Did you end up keeping the Ref 7.1? I see the Zodiac+ in your sig, so I'm not clear. The D18 would be a great counterpoint to an ultra-transparent unit like the Antelope. 
 


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Thanks for the info Project86, as always your interpretations are very descriptive. I too have a Ref7 along with other Dacs but am looking for a good Sabre Dac to go into my stable of Dacs. Looks like either the Anedio or a W4S Dac might fit the bill....
 


 

Thanks! The D18 is certainly unique among the Sabre based DACs I've experienced. It won't be for everyone, but in some cases it may be a better match than the others. 

 

[project86]

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If nothing else it proves that the analytical side of the Sabre chip can be tamed.  Until now most every review puts Dacs with Sabre chips as being very detailed, crisp and analytical in nature, far from forgiving. I have a feeling this was the design intent of Yulong.
 

I think so as well, and I asked him about it, so we'll see. He spent a long time listening and tweaking the design to fit his intended sound sig. Seems like a smart move to me, from a business perspective - a "me too" DAC that sounds similar to others but is a bit cheaper, could sell well... but one that has a unique tone catered to tube/analog folks could sell even better. Many people might even buy it as a second DAC (as we've seen in this thread already). Finding a hole in the market and filling it is always a good way to go. 

 

[customNuts]

 
Quote:

I think so as well, and I asked him about it, so we'll see. He spent a long time listening and tweaking the design to fit his intended sound sig. Seems like a smart move to me, from a business perspective - a "me too" DAC that sounds similar to others but is a bit cheaper, could sell well... but one that has a unique tone catered to tube/analog folks could sell even better. Many people might even buy it as a second DAC (as we've seen in this thread already). Finding a hole in the market and filling it is always a good way to go. 

I agree, he certainly did fill a hole in the market. 
 
I recently sold the Zodiac+, then bought the ref 7.1. I need to update my sig. The zodiac+ was certainly an awesome DAC and very transparent but the ref7.1 is superior in my opinion. The digital clocking section on the Zodiac+ I think is far superior but everything else on the 7.1 (psu, analog stages) absolutely flys past the zodiac+. Apparently a really good psu improves the zodiac+ notably but the audio-gd is stellar value IMO. If the D18 can reach similar performance, then it looks to be even better value for money.
It looks like Grant only posts free to USA & Canada. I'll email to find out.
The Yulong might have to wait a bit as I was planning to buy an empirical audio Off-Ramp 5 with turboclocks - ouch!
Project86, would you consider the Anedio d1 & the D18 to be at the same level of performance albeit different sound sigs??
 

 

[drez]

Would like John Darko to review this - specifically to gauge the qualities of tonal saturation and natural timbre, the lack of which turned me off my last Sabre DAC.
If the Ref 7.1 is a little smooth, and the D18 is even smoother still in the treble, it might be too much for me though.  Would be good if I could get a handle on the magnitude of treble smoothing, and whether or not it would bother me... or whether the better bass definition would be enough compensation.