[CaveManta]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif

If money was not an issue, I would simply buy all the headphones on my gigantic wish list. (See profile.) But I am on a budget. . . By the way, which ultra-high-end headphones have you heard?

If it weren't for budget, I tell ya...
Well, you know...erm...I haven't heard exactly what you'd call "high end." I'm on a budget, myself, as a student. The best I've heard is my Q701, and dang, it's great. I must attend a meet someday, just to hear some nice cans..

But I do have some pretty great Klipsch speakers that blow away the Q701^^.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  If it weren't for budget, I tell ya...
Well, you know...erm...I haven't heard exactly what you'd call "high end." I'm on a budget, myself, as a student. The best I've heard is my Q701, and dang, it's great. I must attend a meet someday, just to hear some nice cans..

But I do have some pretty great Klipsch speakers that blow away the Q701^^.

 
Then why are you saying it's a decision between bass and treble if you haven't even heard the headphones? The HD 800 does not have weak bass; it just needs the right amp for it to have proper bass. I believe it has an impedance of 640 ohms or so in the bass, so this seems to make sense.
 

 
Someone posted that photo in the HE1000 beta thread. Notice the custom paint job by ColorWare on the HD 800. You have to buy the headphone from them for $1,599 to get that. If I liked the HD 800 enough to keep it, I would also want the Stefan AudioArt HD 800 Ultra-Modification and hardwired balanced Endorphin cable...which would make the total cost for the headphone over $3,000.

 

 

[CaveManta]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Then why are you saying it's a decision between bass and treble if you haven't even heard the headphones?
   
Someone posted that photo in the HE1000 beta thread. Notice the custom paint job by ColorWare on the HD 800. You have to buy the headphone from them for $1,599 to get that.

Welll...I know I'm a wanna-be audiophile when I guess headphone frequency response? o.O I'm just judging based on measurements, which of course can be far off. But aren't cans usually measured on fantastic rigs that bring out what they've got? I digress. I must hear them!
 
Here, send me your HD800 when you get it. I'll spray paint it. Just kidding X3. I actually want to "ceracoat" my M50 someday. It's going to be fun! Maybe I can make it gold..or chrome..or pink >.>.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Welll...I know I'm a wanna-be audiophile when I guess headphone frequency response? o.O I'm just judging based on measurements, which of course can be far off. But aren't cans usually measured on fantastic rigs that bring out what they've got? I digress. I must hear them!

 
Do you even know how to read the measurements?
 
Measurements for the HD 800:
 

 
My friend made this, but mislabeled the graph. The black line is the Harman-Olive HRTF curve, which is an average of what sound people prefer. The green line is the flat speaker HRTF curve, which emulates how human ears hear flat-tuned speakers and is what a neutral headphone should follow. Look how closely the raw grey measurements follow the green line. The HD 800 is more neutral and accurate than most headphones out there.

 

[CaveManta]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Do you even know how to read the measurements? Look how closely the raw grey measurements follow the green line. The HD 800 is more neutral and accurate than most headphones out there.

Yersh, you are absolutely right. They are super close! But the sub-bass rolls off to -7db, which doesn't happen with Hifiman cans.

The most important tool for measuring bass, I say, is the 30Hz square wave. The HD800 is super fast, seeing how quickly it shoots up, but its bass decays quickly back to baseline. In contrast, the Hifiman HE-560(no HE-1000 measurements yet =\..) also shoots up quickly, but gradually moves down, never returning to baseline. This shows more accurate, full-bodied bass.

Check out the HD800 30Hz square wave next to the Q701's. It's quite similar! And the Q701 definitely is bass light! Except it has more treble, which makes things worse.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Yersh, you are absolutely right. They are super close! But the sub-bass rolls off to -7db, which doesn't happen with Hifiman cans.
The most important tool for measuring bass, I say, is the 30Hz square wave. The HD800 is super fast, seeing how quickly it shoots up, but its bass decays quickly back to baseline. In contrast, the Hifiman HE-560(no HE-1000 measurements yet =\..) also shoots up quickly, but gradually moves down, never returning to baseline. This shows more accurate, full-bodied bass.
 
Check out the HD800 30Hz square wave next to the Q701's. It's quite similar! And the Q701 definitely is bass light! Except it has more treble, which makes things worse.
I'll try to make some comparison pictures X3

 
You realize you can't hear under 20 Hz, right? Its bass is almost perfectly accurate. (Though some planar magnetic headphones do sometimes have bass that is perfectly accurate.) At any rate, to be sure that you are looking at the right things, you need to look at how closely the grey raw measurements are following the green line. Ignore the compensated measurements on the top.

 

[CaveManta]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif

You realize you can't hear under 20 Hz, right? Its bass is almost perfectly accurate. (Though some planar magnetic headphones do sometimes have bass that is perfectly accurate.) At any rate, to be sure that you are looking at the right things, you need to look at how closely the grey raw measurements are following the green line. Ignore the compensated measurements on the top.

  You're right X3. I'm looking a bit too deeply into it.
Butcha know, comparing two compensated graphs should yield the same result as they're both compensated the same way.
  I spammed put some graphs up, which show the raw frequency responses and square waves compared. The HE-560 definitely is more linear in the bass, following the curve.
  But I'm being kinda silly. I don't even have HE-1000 measurements, so what am I going to achieve? I also kinda proved myself wrong with the 30Hz square wave. When I put the HD800 over the Q701's, I see that the HD800 definitely has more bass "sustenance"(keeps going.) Almost as much as the HE-560. And it doesn't drop to baseline unless it has a poor seal.
  Sorry that I'm bugging everyone you with this debate.

 

[Music Alchemist]

    You're right X3. I'm looking a bit too deeply into it.
Butcha know, comparing two compensated graphs should yield the same result as they're both compensated the same way.
  I spammed put some graphs up, which show the raw frequency responses and square waves compared. The HE-560 definitely is more linear in the bass, following the curve.
  But I'm being kinda silly. I don't even have HE-1000 measurements, so what am I going to achieve? I also kinda proved myself wrong with the 30Hz square wave. When I put the HD800 over the Q701's, I see that the HD800 definitely has more bass "sustenance"(keeps going.) Almost as much as the HE-560. And it doesn't drop to baseline unless it has a poor seal.
  Sorry that I'm bugging everyone you with this debate.

 
To see how neutral a headphone is, you need to compare the raw measurements to that flat speaker HRTF curve. But frequency response is only the beginning. Two headphones with similar FR can sound very different due to other factors in the headphone design.
 
You should like this, if you haven't already seen it:
 
The State of the Flagships
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/one-enthusiasts-take-top-line-headphones-state-flagships

 

[CaveManta]

Originally Posted by Music Alchemist /img/forum/go_quote.gif

But frequency response is only the beginning. Two headphones with similar FR can sound very different due to other factors in the headphone design. You should like this, if you haven't already seen it:
The State of the Flagships
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/one-enthusiasts-take-top-line-headphones-state-flagships

You are super right. There are so many factors that can't be measured. Measurements are only good for some basics.
Oh, man, I read that article a year ago. It was a pretty funny read. Very controversial to say the least.

 

[ceemsc]

YKYAAW You think that the headphones worn in Slovenia's Eurovision entry looked disappointing.

 

[Music Alchemist]

YKYAAW you have posted so many YKYAAW posts that you couldn't possibly think of more. ...Ha. Just kidding, again.
 
For anyone who's interested, I posted some thoughts on my new favorite headphone yesterday:
 

Got the Yamaha HPH-MT220 today. Working on a full-length review, though I may give up and never publish it. lol  
In my opinion, the 220 has less problems than the FSP and 7506. Far superior build quality and comfort. Unlike the FSP and 7506, I don't feel the need to push the ear pads closer to my ears to enhance the sound. In fact, when I do that, the sound doesn't change at all. The trade-off is that my ears press up against the drivers at all times, which is the only minor comfort issue. Bass sounds less boosted than the FSP, but still substantial -- perhaps still boosted a little above neutral. No major problems with the treble. But the mids are too recessed. This review says that after burn-in, it becomes much more transparent. Here's hoping. Despite the issue with the mids, the 220 sounds the most neutral to me overall, since the 7506 is too bright and harsh in the treble and the FSP has too much bass and not enough mids and treble. 7506 has better vocal reproduction. FSP still has better physicality. Tons more info I could share, but I'll save it for later.

 
Oh, and this headphone originally sold for $399, but is now available for just $150! So it's a great value.

 

[Music Alchemist]

YKYAAW you put your headphones on your headphone stand and play them at slightly louder than normal volume, using it as soft background music while burning them in during the times you don't feel like wearing headphones. (According to other owners, the Yamaha HPH-MT220 needs over 100 hours of burn-in for the mids to switch from recessed to transparent. I also stuffed gauze under the ear pads, which improves the sound, but doesn't fix the recessed mids.)

 

[TRapz]

  YKYAAW you have posted so many YKYAAW posts that you couldn't possibly think of more. ...Ha. Just kidding, again.
For anyone who's interested, I posted some thoughts on my new favorite headphone yesterday:
 

Got the Yamaha HPH-MT220 today. Working on a full-length review, though I may give up and never publish it. lol  
In my opinion, the 220 has less problems than the FSP and 7506. Far superior build quality and comfort. Unlike the FSP and 7506, I don't feel the need to push the ear pads closer to my ears to enhance the sound. In fact, when I do that, the sound doesn't change at all. The trade-off is that my ears press up against the drivers at all times, which is the only minor comfort issue. Bass sounds less boosted than the FSP, but still substantial -- perhaps still boosted a little above neutral. No major problems with the treble. But the mids are too recessed. This review says that after burn-in, it becomes much more transparent. Here's hoping. Despite the issue with the mids, the 220 sounds the most neutral to me overall, since the 7506 is too bright and harsh in the treble and the FSP has too much bass and not enough mids and treble. 7506 has better vocal reproduction. FSP still has better physicality. Tons more info I could share, but I'll save it for later.

Oh, and this headphone originally sold for $399, but is now available for just $150! So it's a great value.

Alchemist is talking to himself guys... I think he's finally gone off the deep end... 

 
YKYAAW you want a headphone stand (my Grados deserve it!)

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Alchemist is talking to himself guys... I think he's finally gone off the deep end... 

 
lol, and there's the fact that not many people besides myself post so much in this thread anymore...which is saddening.

 

[TRapz]

 
lol, and there's the fact that not many people besides myself post so much in this thread anymore...which is saddening.

I try as much as I can, but I've been crazy busy with school- AP exams, research papers, make up work from a couple things, etc. This summer I'll try to get really invested in Head-Fi again. That and programming and creative writing.