[Happy Camper]

I used a Xin Macro IV for a few months as my reference of an amp with the K701s. I bought a tube amp and was initially very disappointed in the similarities. After a tube roll and the time to learn how to listen, the tube amp became more the difference everybody claimed they did. Portables are good for what they are made for. A quality source and cans will provide what I consider hi fi. But that portable don't sound as complete as my home rig.

Color me crazy.

 

[boomana]

Driving a headphone well isn't just about volume. I'm too frustrated to post about this in detail for the 1000th time, but just because you're hearing it loudly doesn't mean you're hearing the music as the 600s are cable of revealing.

Loudness doesn't = sound quality. That's only the beginning.

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Driving a headphone well isn't just about volume. I'm too frustrated to post about this in detail for the 1000th time, but just because you're hearing it loudly doesn't mean you're hearing the music as the the 600s are cable of revealing. Loudness doesn't = sound quality. That's only the beginning.

That's not what he was saying at all. They drove it to his satisfaction, then he described the facets of the sound to us. He then commented that there was still a fair amount of volume left, meaning that the amp wasn't using all of it's power yet providing enough to add significant impact and presence.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's not what he was saying at all. They drove it to his satisfaction, then he described the facets of the sound to us. He then commented that there was still a fair amount of volume left, meaning that the amp wasn't using all of it's power yet providing enough to add significant impact and presence.

You're missing the point. Just because something is capable of being loud, and has room to spare on the volume knob, doesn't mean it's being driven well.

I'm pulling this quote from tomb (hope he doesn't mind) from another thread that's going on right now:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes - well, I'm not trying to be facetious, but whether or not you hear details that exist but are not audible in other amps still has to do with loudness, but it's sufficient loudness at all frequencies and with all transients. Either the amp can amplify the frequency/transient to a sufficient "loudness" for you to hear ... or it doesn't. Some of the antonyms of loud are soft, muted, subdued, etc. - all words that can be used to describe details that are not there in one amp but exist in another. Take the most rudimentary amplification or even radio wave microvolts into a ceramic earphone. Most of the frequencies are reduced to around the 1K level or some other midrange point. You may be able to get sufficient loudness or even turn it up to ear-splitting levels - but it's not high-fidelity. I'm sorry if I made too strong a statement about sound cards, but seriously - is a higher-voltage sound card the norm? And does one possess a linear-regulated power supply, discrete buffers, class A bias, etc., etc.? For that matter, how many possess a 1/4" jack? The point of the example was only one attempt to illustrate that compared to a quality, dedicated headphone amp - there are physical limitations that sound cards or portable players simply can't overcome.

I've add the bold.

If you like the HD600s with a portable, that's great! Enjoy, but that's never been the point of any one objecting to using a portable amp with certain headphones that simply do better with desktop amps due to the limitations of portables.

 

[Palpatine]

But there are many of us who would use a great headphone with a portable, not as the main setup, but only because we don't want to be 'chained' to our desk. We realize that we aren't getting the full potential of the phones, but that is not what we are expecting. Sometimes when I get home from work I lay on the couch, which is far away from my equipment. I grab my HD650, and my LD Mk 1 + and listen to a nice piece of music ( like Vangelis' 1492 soundtrack ). Yeah...I could use my HD 25 I II or my Grados unamped... but I still love the sound of the HD650 with my LD portable. Is it as good as my desk amp...no. Does that bother me? No.

 

[vhbaske]

Some big amplifiers are just common amplifier ICs encased in a big cage. And, if you get more than 1 watt to your ears on any amplifier, be it small or big, you will become deaf the same.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palpatine /img/forum/go_quote.gif But there are many of us who would use a great headphone with a portable, not as the main setup, but only because we don't want to be 'chained' to our desk. We realize that we aren't getting the full potential of the phones, but that is not what we are expecting. Sometimes when I get home from work I lay on the couch, which is far away from my equipment. I grab my HD650, and my LD Mk 1 + and listen to a nice piece of music ( like Vangelis' 1492 soundtrack ). Yeah...I could use my HD 25 I II or my Grados unamped... but I still love the sound of the HD650 with my LD portable. Is it as good as my desk amp...no. Does that bother me? No.

Right. I totally get this. My iems sound better with an amp, but I usually don't want to be saddled with one when out and about. They improve even more some desktop amps, but I'm listening to them right now unamped, and I'm happy, though I'm also perfectly aware of the compromises I'm making, and I sometimes I do want to hear them at their best and listen with amp and cdp.

We all make compromises based on budget, purpose, lifestyle, and even mood. I just like to make informed choices, including knowing what compromises I'm choosing, and it's one of my pet peeves when misinformation gets passed down on this board. I'm not saying that's what the op is doing, but from some of the posts in this thread, it seemed to be going this way.

 

[logwed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif You're missing the point. Just because something is capable of being loud, and has room to spare on the volume knob, doesn't mean it's being driven well. I'm pulling this quote from tomb (hope he doesn't mind) from another thread that's going on right now:

He wasn't simply stating that it was loud, he was stating the quality characteristics that the Hornet lent to the sound of the HD600. I've been assuming that we're both talking about TopPop's OP here. Are you sure that you've been reading the same thing?

 

[IPodPJ]

TopPop,
It isn't so much about the impedance as it is about the headphone's sensitivity. The HD600 are very sensitive so it doesn't take a ton of power to drive them. That being said, if you want to drive them with authority and get transparent, quality sound from them you will need a home amp.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by logwed /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been assuming that we're both talking about TopPop's OP here. Are you sure that you've been reading the same thing?

Yup. I've owned both the Hornet and the 600s, and know the combo as well as quite a few other amps and sources with the 600s. It's one headphone that scales exceptionally well.

I'm glad TopPop's enjoying the combo, but he states the Hornet drives them with authority, and based on my experience with other amps, I disagree with that comment. I'm not putting the Hornet down at all. It's a fine portable amp. I think the 600s sound okay with it, but they aren't being driven close to their potential. I also don't think a headphone has to be driven to its potential to be enjoyable and even quite good. I just dislike statements like "driven with authority" when it's not close to my experience when I've heard much better.

 

[yossi126]

I'm with TopPop on this subject, have bought his 3Move.
I think it's an astonishingly good amp for the price.
In comparison to the Corda Opera I owned, (both tested with DT880) the difference I hear is not a 1000$ one (The retail price of the Opera went sky high as 1175$). Actually there is a major noticable differences, but again, it seems that some portable amps keep those with low budget pretty happy.
Y'all don't need to attack him for not having a Beta22, get off his back.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yossi126 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Y'all don't need to attack him for not having a Beta22, get off his back.

No one's attacking him at all, but your tone needs to improve asap.

 

[Nirvana1000]

"Portables" are not what they used to be.You can get tube like sound from "portables" now.And Opamp rolling proves that even more.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nirvana1000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Portables" are not what they used to be.You can get tube like sound from "portables" now.And Opamp rolling proves that even more.

I like portable amps, and there are some very good ones available. That doesn't change the fact that portables have limitations due to size.

I have no idea what you mean by "tube like sound." I've heard many tube amps, owned a couple, and I don't understand what that phrase means at all. Maybe you could help by stating which tube amp with which tubes sounds like a portable amp or visa versa. Maybe also which tube amp sounds like a tube amp. Though it may seem obvious, I really don't know what it means.

 

[Antony6555]

Is op's experience really surprising? I mean, headphones do not require anything close to the amount of power speakers do to be driven properly. Spending $3k on a headphone amp just seems unnecessary.