[rb2013]

   
Hi !  
I have two questions
1)   what means "does iso audio devices" ?
2)   have you any experience/info on the Startech extender part number USB2002EXT2  ?  forgetting the lan compatibility i wonder if this cheaper model can provide any kind of improvement compared to a direct usb cable connection.
 
https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/USB-Extenders/2-Port-USB-2-Extender-over-Cat5-or-Cat6-Up-to-330-ft-100m~USB2002EXT2
 
Thanks a lot again,  gino 

The ability to realtime stream isochronus devices means this is a more sophisticated and powerful chip being used.  This is the one that yields the best SQ for USB (although USB 2.0 is Asyn).  It's a way to identify the proper device from a confusing array of USB extenders.  It must have tow features: 1st it has to be GB LAN compatible, 2nd Iso audio and other device compatible.  If it does not have these capabilities - it may not work well at high res audio SR's.  But not due to the iso capability - just do to the throughput capability this requires.
 
I hope this clears up some confusion.
 

   
Thanks for sticking with this thread RB. I know that you've moved on to a better solution with the Rednet/Dante. I've also been reading on the PSAudio Forum about the LanRover reports. Most people seem to really like the improvement, once they get them working. Far more people are having connectivity issues than I expected. Many, (it seems), are using MACs. I wonder, (and wouldn't be surprised), if Apple's USB bus is just crappier in general.
No one seems to be clarifying if they're using the LanRovers on the audio rack together. As I said before, - NOT hooking these things into your LAN, and pulling the computer off the rack & to another location in the house, - seems to defeat much of the purpose of these devices.
Although it's good speculation to assume that Icron is building these for PSAudio, - I am most curious to know if these are indeed the isochronous ones, or just the plain GE, gigabit LAN ones...
 
I wish that someone would compare the isochronous Gigabit LAN branded Icrons, with the LanRover. But that would be a pretty huge outlay of cash to experiment with.
 
Thanks again for all of your great work!!

Hey thanks!
 
Well you I have been on the fence about replacing my uber USB chain with the Startech in my office system with AOIP.  It is just so good.  I sometimes think it does connect better on an emotional level.  So have not listed my Startech for sale.  Note the quality of the CAT6 cable does matter in this chain.
 
I think unless you have a very highly resolving system the REDNET AOIP may not gain you much. 
 
I would love to see a board photo of the LANRover to confirm which chipset they are using.

 

[rb2013]

  I didn't know they already have a iDSD2 Thanks for the reply

Sorry I had a iDAC2.  It ranked near the bottom of my DDC pile.

 

[ginetto61]

Originally Posted by Albrecht /img/forum/go_quote.gif 
 
Hi,
It means it uses isochronous chip, - it is either similar or the same as the chip that Chord uses in their USB receivers in their DACs.
"The QuteHD is an all-digital design and allows operation from a single SPDIF connection from 32 kHz to 384 kHz. Due to unique features in the design, reliable operation with 192 kHz from Toslink optical is possible. This allows better sound quality, as the benefits of optical (lower RF noisegiving lower noise-floor modulation and hence smoother sound) is obtained, without the detriments of poor jitter and errors from optical. Isochronous USB and Digital PLLIsochronous USB operation eliminates jitter from the transmitting computer, asio-timing is controlled by the QuteHD. With SPDIF sources, the effect of incoming jitter is virtually eliminated by use of a unique Digital PLL. This has a very long time constant of 1.5 seconds, so the incoming jitter is effectively removed. The benefit of this is no measured degradation with huge incoming jitter levels and a smoother, warmer, more natural sound quality. "
With respect, you have asked this question several times, and the answer has not, nor will not, change. These are not audio devices, they are distributive networking devices designed to extend USB peripherals like mice, keyboards, hard drives, etc from room to room. There are many models, because each model has its own unique & specific purpose. If you want to extend your mouse into two rooms that are right up against each other, you're not going to want to use the super expensive gigabit LAN model. Mice don't have the same bandwidth & signal type as hi-rez video. The models down the chain are not only incompatible with converting USB to TCP/IP & back, - they're not even capable of adequately isolating the USB signal.
Rob has tried these "down-the-chain" models, (and reported it in an earlier post). Models down in the chain do not work, they don't have the bandwidth to adequately maintain the USB audio spec.
Maybe there's one of the 12 or so of these that MIGHT allow you to run 16/44 with no cracks, or dropouts, - that you can possibly use on the audio rack with your computer.
But it will still cost $300 or so, and will likely sound worse than an Intona or a Regen.
The goal isn't only to improve USB, it's to get the noisy computer away from the rest of the audio system.
From what I can tell, no one here believes that they can find an Intona level device that's an USB extender that works as well for less than the Intona. We've given up.
We either get something close to an Intona, keeping the computer on the rack: or get something better that does both. 
The choice is to either buy the Intona, or get something much better that also gets the noisy computer into another room.
I apologize if I was impolite here...

 
 
Hi !  thanks a lot indeed for the very valuable advice
I have opened them and for sure the chips are not like the one of the mentioned unit.
As you mention the Intona I guess that galvanic isolation is a primary goal. 
Is there a way to check if the model I have provides galvanic isolation or not ?  I mean an easy test that I can carry out ?
Or is it possible to determine this looking at the pcb circuits ?
I am not at all on high rez, max 16/48 here.  
For now I have no dropouts with this resolution and sampling rate. 
Thanks a lot again,  gino  

 

[ginetto61]

The ability to realtime stream isochronus devices means this is a more sophisticated and powerful chip being used. 
This is the one that yields the best SQ for USB (although USB 2.0 is Asyn).  It's a way to identify the proper device from a confusing array of USB extenders. 
It must have tow features:
1st it has to be GB LAN compatible,
2nd Iso audio and other device compatible. 
If it does not have these capabilities - it may not work well at high res audio SR's. 
But not due to the iso capability - just do to the throughput capability this requires.
I hope this clears up some confusion. 

 
Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and helpful advice.
I have no interest in high rez audio.  My needs stop at 16/48.
I have opened them and the chips are much smaller than the one you post.  Clearly is a much lesser quality product. 
But reading praises of the Intona
 
I would like to understand if, high rez aside, these units I have do provide galvanic isolation.  
Is there a simple test to carry out to check this ?  
 
If I can get galvanic isolation I am more than satisfied.
I played some low rez files without any drop-outs.
Thanks a lot again,   gino    

 

[r11bordo]

Some have compared the new Pro3z with the F-1 and preferred the F-1.  The XU216 may provide little advantages, esp at SR's below 384k.

The big leap was going from the XMOS 500MIPs U-8 to the 1000MIPs XU208

Where have you seen feedback about pro3z? If you have few links, I get its.

 

[Moon Dragon]

Many thanks to rb2013 and roman410 for such a detailed answer to my question. Now I understend how to make a power supply for F1

 

[taz23]

Some have compared the new Pro3z with the F-1 and preferred the F-1.  The XU216 may provide little advantages, esp at SR's below 384k.

The big leap was going from the XMOS 500MIPs U-8 to the 1000MIPs XU208

I do not have the F-1 but just received the Pro3z. I have only been listening to it for an hour, and I like the optical out to my Geek Pulse XFi. The coaxial seemed bright to me. Now I understand the term "the speaker just disappeared". By the way, I am using the Pro3z after an Intona.

I purchased the unit after seeing a quick comment that the user preferred Pro3z over the F-1. While waiting for the unit, a few comments came up that they prefer F-1. So it seems like it is a mixed bag of comments. Perhaps both are good, and it is a matter of preference and synergy.

Happy listening.

 

[Maxx134]

Some have compared the new Pro3z with the F-1 and preferred the F-1.  The XU216 may provide little advantages, esp at SR's below 384k.

The big leap was going from the XMOS 500MIPs U-8 to the 1000MIPs XU208

I do not have the F-1 but just received the Pro3z. I have only been listening to it for an hour, and I like the optical out to my Geek Pulse XFi. The coaxial seemed bright to me. Now I understand the term "the speaker just disappeared". By the way, I am using the Pro3z after an Intona.

I purchased the unit after seeing a quick comment that the user preferred Pro3z over the F-1. While waiting for the unit, a few comments came up that they prefer F-1. So it seems like it is a mixed bag of comments. Perhaps both are good, and it is a matter of preference and synergy.

Happy listening.

Thank you both for response.
I also tried a jitterbug in my chain right after the laptop,
but no improvement so I took put.
I believe the it is theasy synergy like you say. ..
Since I have a new thin small laptop,
I am guessing that is the reason.

but I have notice a nice improvement with swapping out old Regen power supply with the smaller iPower .

more clean background, and dynamics.


Basically the F-1 made my yggy more spacious and real.

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks a lot for the very kind and helpful advice.
I have no interest in high rez audio.  My needs stop at 16/48.
I have opened them and the chips are much smaller than the one you post.  Clearly is a much lesser quality product. 
But reading praises of the Intona
 
I would like to understand if, high rez aside, these units I have do provide galvanic isolation.  
Is there a simple test to carry out to check this ?  
 
If I can get galvanic isolation I am more than satisfied.
I played some low rez files without any drop-outs.
Thanks a lot again,   gino    

Yes - with a multi meter test the USB power pins from each side for continuity
 

Where have you seen feedback about pro3z? If you have few links, I get its.

Some one posted here a few pages back.
 

  Many thanks to rb2013 and roman410 for such a detailed answer to my question. Now I understend how to make a power supply for F1

Cheers!

 

I do not have the F-1 but just received the Pro3z. I have only been listening to it for an hour, and I like the optical out to my Geek Pulse XFi. The coaxial seemed bright to me. Now I understand the term "the speaker just disappeared". By the way, I am using the Pro3z after an Intona.

I purchased the unit after seeing a quick comment that the user preferred Pro3z over the F-1. While waiting for the unit, a few comments came up that they prefer F-1. So it seems like it is a mixed bag of comments. Perhaps both are good, and it is a matter of preference and synergy.

Happy listening.

I'd love to see a board photo of the Pro3z.  Would be interested to see the power isolation scheme they use.
 
DIYinHK usually post board photos - but have not on the Pro3z.
 
Here is the Pro3a (which I had two of) - you see the std Murata transformer for isolation.

 
 
From their description looks to be the same for the Pro3z just using the XU216

Ultra low phase noise NDK NZ2520SD oscillator, thin film resistor and Murata isolated transformer (Be care the very common China made Pulse transformer in many 192khz SPDIF equipment is only capable of maximum 7Mbps(i.e. 96khz) according to the official datasheet.) Components are sourced from NDK and digikey directly (guarantee no fake product from China) 

 
Yes of course YMMV

 

[rb2013]

Thank you both for response.
I also tried a jitterbug in my chain right after the laptop,
but no improvement so I took put.
I believe the it is theasy synergy like you say. ..
Since I have a new thin small laptop,
I am guessing that is the reason.

but I have notice a nice improvement with swapping out old Regen power supply with the smaller iPower .

more clean background, and dynamics.


Basically the F-1 made my yggy more spacious and real.

Nice feedback - thanks!

 

[Maxx134]

 

Hi !  
I have two questions
1)   what means "does iso audio devices" ?
2)   have you any experience/info on the Startech extender part number USB2002EXT2  ?  forgetting the lan compatibility i wonder if this cheaper model can provide any kind of improvement compared to a direct usb cable connection.

https://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/USB-2/USB-Extenders/2-Port-USB-2-Extender-over-Cat5-or-Cat6-Up-to-330-ft-100m~USB2002EXT2

Thanks a lot again,  gino 

The ability to realtime stream isochronus devices means this is a more sophisticated and powerful chip being used.  This is the one that yields the best SQ for USB (although USB 2.0 is Asyn).  It's a way to identify the proper device from a confusing array of USB extenders.  It must have tow features: 1st it has to be GB LAN compatible, 2nd Iso audio and other device compatible.  If it does not have these capabilities - it may not work well at high res audio SR's.  But not due to the iso capability - just do to the throughput capability this requires.

I hope this clears up some confusion.


Hey thanks!

Well you I have been on the fence about replacing my uber USB chain with the Startech in my office system with AOIP.  It is just so good.  I sometimes think it does connect better on an emotional level.  So have not listed my Startech for sale.  Note the quality of the CAT6 cable does matter in this chain.

I think unless you have a very highly resolving system the REDNET AOIP may not gain you much. 

I would love to see a board photo of the LANRover to confirm which chipset they are using.

I see a lot of progression was made with these setups.
wow

 

[kazsud]

I do not have the F-1 but just received the Pro3z. I have only been listening to it for an hour, and I like the optical out to my Geek Pulse XFi. The coaxial seemed bright to me. Now I understand the term "the speaker just disappeared". By the way, I am using the Pro3z after an Intona.

I purchased the unit after seeing a quick comment that the user preferred Pro3z over the F-1. While waiting for the unit, a few comments came up that they prefer F-1. So it seems like it is a mixed bag of comments. Perhaps both are good, and it is a matter of preference and synergy.

Happy listening.

 
I would burn in coax when you aren't listening. And give it another try.

 

[ginetto61]

  Yes - with a multi meter test the USB power pins from each side for continuity
Some one posted here a few pages back.
Cheers!

 

 
Hi ! thanks a lot again.  I will do it immediately.
They are really nice objects these converters
Kind regards, gino  

 

[slex]

Cheapest full speed usb isolation i encounter with external power.

Olimex USB iso- google it

 

[Albrecht]

Hi,
 
The USB extenders that you linked to have lower bandwidth and may or may not provide an adequate level of isolation.
 
I would think that SQ would be the biggest concern.
 
But the device that you linked to is $430. I would return it if you can.
 
The isochronous/gigabit LAN extender from ICRON is only $30 more at $457, - that'll give you better SQ than the Intona,  (although some people may dispute this, and have experienced no improvement over the Intona). And it also will provide better isolation than the Intona; cause it's converting USB to TCP.
 
AND  allow you in the future, (if you want to), - plug into your network, and remove your computer from the audio room.
 
If you don't want the SQ, aren't concerned about plugging into your LAN, and only want Isolation, - my recommendation would be to just buy the Intona, and save at least a $100.
 
(This is just me, but when one is talking about flexibility and possible future features: I will ALWAYS spend $30 more on a $400-$500 total cost product).
 
Cheers,