[Seekky]

Sorry, i trust my ears more.
I'm against this argument.
I know graphs won't lie, but what's most importance is that what sounds better to our ears.
As least from a consumer perspective. I ain't no serious audiophile tbh.

 

[mugen3]

Sorry, i trust my ears more.
I'm against this argument.
I know graphs won't lie, but what's most importance is that what sounds better to our ears.
As least from a consumer perspective. I ain't no serious audiophile tbh.

Agreed, I think there are more changes than that. Sony said they slightly changed the tuning. The 30s also have a larger stage and better imaging than the 3s. And a nice Y-cord instead of a J-cord.

 

[MrFujisawa]

I have the XBA 3i, don't notice this sibilance/metallic sound, do find the bass could be better (but I have problems getting a good seal on most iem's, especially my left ear). Now, maybe this is a hearing issue...I am nearing 60, and high frequencies are supposed to be gone by now. In fact, I generally find percussion like high hats/ride cymbals hard to hear though most headphones (though not through my big rig stereo or live). My most recent purchase, the ATH 900x, is great in that way (maybe others will also find it to bright or harsh). All in the ear of the beholder/listener...

perhaps try some comply T 200 tips?

 

[sinquito]

perhaps try some comply T 200 tips?

For the bass or seal? because he has a hard time hearing the high freqs and using foam tips wouldn't help a lot.

 

[MrFujisawa]

Quote:

For the bass or seal? because he has a hard time hearing the high freqs and using foam tips wouldn't help a lot.

seal+bass

 

[doctorjazz]

Generally find I like double or triple flange tips better than Complys, if I can get them in comfortably. They do a good job of sealing (varies by the specific one, of course). I'll give them another try, though, thanks

 

[Inks]

Rin's graphs probably

That's  ignorant and silly. I have heard the XBA4 and 3, the 4 only does subbass better, everything else the XBA3 does better. The XBA4 is just pricier....Since XBA30 and 40 just have more damping and less impedance, same applies for these models. 
 
Originally Posted by Seekky /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Sorry, i trust my ears more.
I'm against this argument.
I know graphs won't lie, but what's most importance is that what sounds better to our ears.
As least from a consumer perspective. I ain't no serious audiophile tbh.
 

I bet you wouldn't trust your ears if one were to damp a normal XBA3 to match the XBA30, which is proven to be possible. It's not about the subjective matter of what is better, the point is that it's basically the same product, people that suggest the XBA30 over the 3 are just making users waste extra money because of their unexperience matter in the subject. 
 
 

Agreed, I think there are more changes than that. Sony said they slightly changed the tuning. The 30s also have a larger stage and better imaging than the 3s. And a nice Y-cord instead of a J-cord.

Sony did change the tuning, they damped the nozzle more and lowered impedance, LOL. I bet you too wouldn't tell the difference in a blind when the XBA3 is matched with damping. You are right though, you pay premium for a y-cord....LOL. Rin heard both and to him, they sounded basically the same in stage and imaging, pre-graphing. Their transients speed are the same, so no surprise there, I don't get the need to impose what's not there...

 

[canikickit1]

I'd still recommend the 30s over the 3s. I would agree that maybe the thicker material on the nozzles would remove the metallic sheen of the xbas (as proved evident by a member on this thread whom removed theirs), but would it explain a bigger soundstage and a fuller sound overall? Rin's analysis may objectively state the 3s are technically better but to are they better to you is what ultimately matters. Besides, based on current amazon.jp and amazon.com rates the 30s and 3s are $127 and $140 respectively. Figure in the Tenso rates, and you would probably spend an extra $20 for to get'em shipped to the states. I'd gladly tell people to get the 30s for the extra $7 more since it offered an improvement to my ears. 

 

[Inks]

I'd still recommend the 30s over the 3s. I would agree that maybe the thicker material on the nozzles would remove the metallic sheen of the xbas (as proved evident by a member on this thread whom removed theirs), but would it explain a bigger soundstage and a fuller sound overall? Rin's analysis may objectively state the 3s are technically better but to are they better to you is what ultimately matters. Besides, based on current amazon.jp and amazon.com rates the 30s and 3s are $127 and $140 respectively. Figure in the Tenso rates, and you would probably spend an extra $20 for to get'em shipped to the states. I'd gladly tell people to get the 30s for the extra $7 more since it offered an improvement to my ears. 

Damping does increase subbass a bit. I bet the soundstage thing is mostly placebo [expectation bias] or an artifact of the damping as it allows more perception of the very high regions because of tamed 4k peak. There are no extra vents or a change in transients, so that soundstage perception is ALL frequency response related........ To Rin, who had no expectation [prior graphing], soundstage was about the same...The 3s have been going as low as 100$ if one has patience, same for the ip model which a lot can use. There's no excuse IMO, why make users pay more and go through the hassles of Tenso, it's a shame. It's more like 150$ for XBA30 and 130$ or less, specially a much better value for those that can use the ip model. 

 

[canikickit1]

Quote:

Damping does increase subbass a bit. I bet the soundstage thing is mostly placebo [expectation bias]...

 
No expectation bias (at least for soundstage)  on my end as the data for the 30s compared to the 3s was minimal at best when I compared the two (about ~2-3 months ago). I only read that the 30s removed the metallic sheen which is generally what I disliked about the 3s. If I discovered that removing the foams from the 3s removed the sheen, then I would've just stuck with my 3s. 

 

[Inks]

No expectation bias (at least for soundstage)  on my end as the data for the 30s compared to the 3s was minimal at best when I compared the two (about ~2-3 months ago). I only read that the 30s removed the metallic sheen which is generally what I disliked about the 3s. If I discovered that removing the foams from the 3s removed the sheen, then I would've just stuck with my 3s. 

You actually add foam to the 3 to remove the sheen, removing the foam will make it worse. It's easier said than done [no expectatin bias, even Rin had some, though minimal as well], but there's really no vents or anything that will make the sounstage bigger, unless the tip difference made one more shallow, the soundstage is is simply the same because the design is the same, so the soundstage difference is all frequency respone related which isn't different when matched. Once there's an undestanding of acoustics and logic into place, there's no really no reason to go for the XBA30, unless you like the color and y-split [for non ip users]. 

 

[sinquito]

Quote:

That's  ignorant and silly. I have heard the XBA4 and 3, the 4 only does subbass better, everything else the XBA3 does better. The XBA4 is just pricier....Since XBA30 and 40 just have more damping and less impedance, same applies for these models. 
 
Originally Posted by Seekky /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I bet you wouldn't trust your ears if one were to damp a normal XBA3 to match the XBA30, which is proven to be possible. It's not about the subjective matter of what is better, the point is that it's basically the same product, people that suggest the XBA30 over the 3 are just making users waste extra money because of their unexperience matter in the subject. 
 
 

Why the calling? In the first response you  wrote that you had heard them both and find that the XBA-3 is better than the XBA-4 so you make that statement based on you ears, but then you wrote in a response to Seekky that he can't trust his ears because it has been prove (based on Rin's almighty graphs that the XBA-3 and the XBA-30 is the same product). I like that.

 

[Inks]

Why the disrespectful assumptions and tongue-in-cheek?

The thing is that he made assumptions on what was otherwise proven. My case is completely different, if you like the XBA4 more that's fine, no reasoning is going to change that.

 

[sinquito]

Quote:

Why the disrespectful assumptions and tongue-in-cheek?

The thing is that he made assumptions on what was otherwise proven. My case is completely different, if you like the XBA4 more that's fine, no reasoning is going to change that.

I am sorry if you find any of my posts disrespectful and to be honest I find funny how you could swear by those graphs. I haven't heard the XBA-3 so I can't make a judgment, but I have read that many find the XBA-3 to be better overall and that's fine by me, actually I bought the XBA-3 (before  I bought the  XBA-1 and 4 but I still haven't got it yet) based on those opinions.
I guess we can agree on disagree about the graphs? don't be so serious I was kidding when I wrote the first post.

 

[MrFujisawa]

For someone like me who doesn't want to muck about addid stuff into the nozzle the 30 is the way to go. Also, even ordering it from japan it was still cheaper than the 3 is here in the UK. Im happy with my purchase