[Skylab]

I played the recent vinyl issue of Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia" today - it was breathtakingly good sounding.

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

Dalamar you are making yourself look bad. 

Only to people whose faith is more powerful than facts and science. The fact is vinyl is not better than digital in any way. The recordings themselves may in some cases be better, however, CD has the highest potential SQ.

 

[erin]

Quote:

If by ignorant you mean I'm not fooling myself into being a dumb placebo addict, then yes I certainly am ignorant.
 
I look at things with skepticism until proof is provided, and there is no proof that you need a superhax DAC or some obsolete vinyl crap that was abandoned for a reason.

By Ignorant, I mean, your comments imply someone who has not heard different DAC's or good vinyl.
Go to a shop (don't necessarily buy) and listen to a few different DAC's and see how they sound different.
See if one of them gives YOU a better enjoyment of the music. They don't have to be megabucks to make an improvement.
 
So, you don't know which DAC to audition at the shop?
There are plenty of reviews on the internet to point you in the right direction.
 
Vinyl is Crap eh?
 
I bet there is a shop in your area somewhere that sells quality record players - go an have a listen for yourself.
 
It seems to me that you simply have not taken the time to audition this equipment.
If you had I am confident you would see what people are talking about.
 
In the end I don't know if what I have written will make a difference to you.
Others go out and try to seek out new and better things.
Others are just happy with what they have and that is fine. 
But you shouldn't just make blanket statements about topics you don't seem to know about.
Theory is one thing and practice is another.
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

I played the recent vinyl issue of Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia" today - it was breathtakingly good sounding.

Yeah, I have been considering getting a TT as an addition to one of my systems.  Still unsure which model I am going with but I have seen some with built in preamps but I think I will go with an external preamp.
What TT do you have?

 

[Skylab]

My vinyl rig is VPI Scoutmaster > Benz Micro LP-S > Eddie Current Transcription. And I absolutely love it

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

By Ignorant, I mean, your comments imply someone who has not heard different DAC's or good vinyl.
Go to a shop (don't necessarily buy) and listen to a few different DAC's and see how they sound different.
See if one of them gives YOU a better enjoyment of the music. They don't have to be megabucks to make an improvement.
 
So, you don't know which DAC to audition at the shop?
There are plenty of reviews on the internet to point you in the right direction.
 
Vinyl is Crap eh?
 
I bet there is a shop in your area somewhere that sells quality record players - go an have a listen for yourself.
 
It seems to me that you simply have not taken the time to audition this equipment.
If you had I am confident you would see what people are talking about.
 
In the end I don't know if what I have written will make a difference to you.
Others go out and try to seek out new and better things.
Others are just happy with what they have and that is fine. 
But you shouldn't just make blanket statements about topics you don't seem to know about.
Theory is one thing and practice is another.
 
 
 
 
 

 

I've listened to plenty of DACs, I've listened to vinyl. Vinyl has less dynamic range, higher noise floor, degrades (both in disk and moving hardware). PITA "hobby" for people with nothing better to do.
Digital doesn't have those limitations. Digital sounds every bit as good unless it's a bad loudness war recording, in which case yes vinyl version tends to sound better.
 
It's absolutely pathetic Metallica on vinyl has NO clipping and MUCH more dynamic range than the cd version which is chock full of clipped samples.
You're being decieved, tbh. The same thing with those 24/96 albums. There's no reason to use 24/96 over redbook, the dynamic range of redbook is almost never used fully, and nobody can hear over 20khz anyway. But yet the false "proof" is that these albums do sound better, but not for the reason the tell you : because they aren't as squashed with a compressor and driven into clipping like most redbook releases. The quality of the recording is what really matters - not your dac, not your vinyl fallacy, not your bit depth, not your sample rate.

 

[erin]

I have an OAK turntable (from the UK) it has a Rega RB250 tonearm with a Grado Green cartridge. Very nice sound!
 
If I personally making an entry into Vinyl i think i would go for a Project turntable of some sort probably with an Ortofon cart.
As I feel that the Project is the best bang for buck turntable, looks modern, and has a solid plinth.
 
Of course if you want to get an all time classic, seek out a used Linn Sondek, but then you really have to have it checked out by someone who knows Linn back to front to check for worn bearings etc. the setup of the Linn could be a nightmare for a novice.
 
 
 

 

[erin]

Quote:

I've listened to plenty of DACs, I've listened to vinyl. Vinyl has less dynamic range, higher noise floor, degrades (both in disk and moving hardware). PITA "hobby" for people with nothing better to do.
Digital doesn't have those limitations. Digital sounds every bit as good unless it's a bad loudness war recording, in which case yes vinyl version tends to sound better.
 
It's absolutely pathetic Metallica on vinyl has NO clipping and MUCH more dynamic range than the cd version which is chock full of clipped samples.
You're being decieved, tbh. The same thing with those 24/96 albums. There's no reason to use 24/96 over redbook, the dynamic range of redbook is almost never used fully, and nobody can hear over 20khz anyway. But yet the false "proof" is that these albums do sound better, but not for the reason the tell you : because they aren't as squashed with a compressor and driven into clipping like most redbook releases. The quality of the recording is what really matters - not your dac, not your vinyl fallacy, not your bit depth, not your sample rate.

So you have listened to "plenty of DAC's" so I guess to you every one sounded EXACTLY the same. NO difference AT ALL?
Not one was better than another? Is that what you are saying? So you don't use a DAC to listen to digital?
 
Vinyl does have some downsides, but when the stars are aligned ( which is most of the time) nothing compares to the sound of vinyl.
I agree that the dynamic range of CD is enough. 16 bits is just fine. Even though we cant hear over 20Khz, and some of us less than this, the harmonics of frequencies over 20khz contribute to the overall sound. I expect that is why I prefer the HF of vinyl to CD.
 
I guess there is no converting you, and equally there is no converting me either, I like Vinyl, and I like my TDA1541 NOS DAC.
But, unlike you, I will continue to seek out better replay equipment and not dismiss it like you seem to.
 
You also say Digital sounds every bit as good. - I disagree, if we are talking about an old recording, by the time the "digital master" is done the tapes have deteriorated, and the sound quality is NOT as good as an original copy on vinyl. I have done numerous AB comparisons and the noise is LOUDER on the CD than the Vinyl due to tape deterioration, and if the mastering engineer uses digital noise reduction, the HF sound weird on the CD compared to the vinyl.
 
Don't get me started on "digital remasters" where the entire album is remixed at the multitrack level and has compression added to everything, the bass turned up, drums louder, and the album sounds nothing like the original, an all I can think is what a waste of a good opportunity, and I feel sorry for the fans of the music.
 
New recordings done on Digital, yes they are fine. no problems here.
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

[Ustasa]

 
Quote:

I've listened to plenty of DACs, I've listened to vinyl. Vinyl has less dynamic range, higher noise floor, degrades (both in disk and moving hardware). PITA "hobby" for people with nothing better to do.
Digital doesn't have those limitations. Digital sounds every bit as good unless it's a bad loudness war recording, in which case yes vinyl version tends to sound better.
 
It's absolutely pathetic Metallica on vinyl has NO clipping and MUCH more dynamic range than the cd version which is chock full of clipped samples.
You're being decieved, tbh. The same thing with those 24/96 albums. There's no reason to use 24/96 over redbook, the dynamic range of redbook is almost never used fully, and nobody can hear over 20khz anyway. But yet the false "proof" is that these albums do sound better, but not for the reason the tell you : because they aren't as squashed with a compressor and driven into clipping like most redbook releases. The quality of the recording is what really matters - not your dac, not your vinyl fallacy, not your bit depth, not your sample rate.

And what DAC's Turntables have you listened to ?
 
People pay big money for turntables because they work .
 
Dac's are becoming on par with turntables but are not fully
there yet , as most of the guys at Diyaudio and Audikarma will tell you
as they are still finding out the in's and out's of what makes digital audio perform
at its peak and trying to cure the PITA known as jitter .
 
As for your selections in music hearing the difference in any Metallica album would be
at best comical .
 
It seems you you are full of opinions but not of real world facts .
 
Best wishes
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

My vinyl rig is VPI Scoutmaster > Benz Micro LP-S > Eddie Current Transcription. And I absolutely love it

What would you suggest for a reasonable entry level TT ?
I am guessing most here that work with vinyl also keep there system 100% analog without and interference from such ADC,DAC's?

 

[Skylab]

There are lots of potential entry-level decks, including some vintage options, but that is not my area of expertise, really - there are some good threads on that though. And yes, you don't want to digitize the output of your TT

 

[ROBSCIX]

Quote:

There are lots of potential entry-level decks, including some vintage options, but that is not my area of expertise, really - there are some good threads on that though. And yes, you don't want to digitize the output of your TT

Thanks.  I will do some research  on some TT's.  I know yiou wouldn't want to digitize the output but I have heard of such things. 
 

 

[Stevtt]

I started out with a Pro-ject Expression III and was very happy with it

 

[erin]

Quote:

What would you suggest for a reasonable entry level TT ?
I am guessing most here that work with vinyl also keep there system 100% analog without and interference from such ADC,DAC's?

Hi ROBSCIX, as I wrote earlier, check out the range of Project turntables they are good value, sound good, and look good. Entry level TT is around $500 give or take.
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?info=turntables&cat=turntables&lang=en
 
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

Thanks.  I am just going to do some research.  I have seen some of these USB tables but think they are missing why you go with a TT to begin with.