[RicHSAD]

Maybe there is a different or maybe there isn't. All I am saying is that it is pretty easy to convince yourself of something just by believing in it.

Believing is Hearing.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on how revealing your gear and how trained your ears are. Be careful in what you say doesn't exist when so many others say the opposite. Consider the possibility that you just don't have the ability to hear it yet, or don't have the gear to reveal it.

You may as well include AGE as well,no good training your ears to listen to a sound that they will not hear.
Same old arguments all the time,first its the fact that the person has untrained ears,then after he has trained them[what a joke]and still no difference he is informed that his gear is not good enough.
I will say this once only anyone who starts paying thousands of dollars for cables so that his trained ears can pick a difference that might not exist is a fool who is deluding himself.

No wonder all these "golden eared wonder boys" stay clear of properly conducted blind tests.

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on how revealing your gear and how trained your ears are. Be careful in what you say doesn't exist when so many others say the opposite. Consider the possibility that you just don't have the ability to hear it yet, or don't have the gear to reveal it.

Don't even start with this esoteric bs "oh you just don't have the gear to reveal it." I most certainly do when I compare what I own with the items listed in your profile. You can believe you hear a difference, but you should be careful to insist that there is one when you have no objective way to show there's a difference, just like cables.

 

[parrot5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't even start with this esoteric bs "oh you just don't have the gear to reveal it." I most certainly do when I compare what I own with the items listed in your profile. You can believe you hear a difference, but you should be careful to insist that there is one when you have no objective way to show there's a difference, just like cables.

Isn't it much much easier to hear the differences with cables? Maybe you people all started out with upgraded cables already? I remember I used a pair of computer 2.1 speakers (Monsoon Planar 9) and used the stock 3.5mm audio cable. I was happy. One day I needed that cable for something else, so I went to ratshack and got one of their own branded cable. Maybe $15. Not saying the new one "sound better" or whatever, but the fact was that the bass was overwhelming. Even when my roommate came home she asked if I got another set of speakers. In the end, I switched back to the old cable because the bass was too booming with the new one. I don't doubt for a second that it would show up on a frequency graph.

With that said, I agree that between upgraded cables they don't sound much different to me (I probably don't have the revealing-enough gears to qualify to say it anyway).

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't even start with this esoteric bs "oh you just don't have the gear to reveal it." I most certainly do when I compare what I own with the items listed in your profile. You can believe you hear a difference, but you should be careful to insist that there is one when you have no objective way to show there's a difference, just like cables.

Once again, just because you can't hear it doesn't mean others can't either.

Regarding your comment on objectivity and without getting into an argument on DBT here, I will say that I've consistently picked out differences in cables for my HD650 without knowing which one's connected and I'm sure many others can too. If you can't, that's great, you've just saved yourself some money, but don't assume that just because you can't hear it, it can't exist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by parrot5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't it much much easier to hear the differences with cables? Maybe you people all started out with upgraded cables already?

I agree, the differences among cables is quite a bit more pronounced than what I hear between bit-perfect algorithms. As I mentioned in my first post in the thread, the differences I outlined between KS and WASAPI were very subtle.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Oh there is a significant difference with OS's Windows XP and before.

I'll find the scientific backing it later. i.e. the Windows Kmixer does not tweak the sound.

The difference with 'software upgrading' as opposed to 'hardware upgrading' such as via cables, is that it usually costs nothing in monetary value.

Difference between this and EQing is that you are bypassing a DSP that tweaks with the sound negatively i.e. it's not messing with the actual electrical signal like EQing. Since I still use XP (not upgrading 'til Windows 7 becomes established driver wise) using this and noise filtering (artificially reduces the noise floor = better perceived sound, particularly in the higher frequencies. Hardware form = power conditioners tbh.).

With Vista / Windows 7, there is no difference due to WASAPI.

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh there is a significant difference with OS's Windows XP and before. I'll find the scientific backing it later. i.e. the Windows Kmixer does not tweak the sound.

Which is what I previously stated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif (not upgrading 'til Windows 7 becomes established driver wise)

Windows 7 has been established driver wise since the day Vista was

. The driver model of Windows 7 wasn't drastically overhauled like it was in Vista, and thus 99% of Vista drivers work on 7; at most you need to enable compatibility mode to install them.

 

[Jerrycan]

Listened to all the "flavours" wasapi, kernelstreaming and asio(xonar-asio that is) and heard no difference.

Windows7>Foobar>xonarD2>MusilandSRC10(upsampler)>H eadroom Balanced Max>HD800.

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerrycan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listened to all the "flavours" wasapi, kernelstreaming and asio(xonar-asio that is) and heard no difference.

There's a reason

 

[leeperry]

sometimes ASIO can go wrong too: Universal Soldier: ASUS Xonar D2 PM Sound Card Review (page 9) - X-bit labs

these audio renderers are just a wrapper between the apps and the windows system drivers...a poorly written miniport in the drivers, or a non bit-perfect implementation...and the train wrecks

also, the cPlay author said that he cannot stand the ASIO "sound" on computeraudiophile.com, and very much prefers WASAPI

some ppl also say that they prefer KS on XP over WASAPI on Vista...wider SS IIRC. it should also be noted that DirectKS is deprecated on Vista, it's a legacy renderer...and even if RME doesn't wanna hear about it, WASAPI works its best w/ WaveRT drivers.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by somestranger26 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which is what I previously stated. Windows 7 has been established driver wise since the day Vista was . The driver model of Windows 7 wasn't drastically overhauled like it was in Vista, and thus 99% of Vista drivers work on 7; at most you need to enable compatibility mode to install them.

It's more ~85% mark tbh. Asus Vista drivers (including sound drivers) for example don't work on Win7.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shahrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I compared WASAPI and KS and found that KS produced a more prominent high end and also slightly more bass impact. WASAPI was smoother and put the mids more up front. These were subtle but reproducible results and from what I described above, the treble was the most obvious difference between the two.

i just tried this on my desktop running XP and agree to these findings. running KS there seems to be better separation/layering and there is more treble energy i haven't heard before, it kind of makes the music sound live. there also seems to be more space and impact. the soundstage isn't any wider, it just sounds more spacious. more 3D i guess you could say. i think i like it better than running asio plugin with asio4all. i think i still prefer WASAPI over KS because it sounds smoother.

the KS plugin seems to suck out the warm midrange and makes things sound clearer. this could be good/bad thing depending on what you prefer. i'm using one of the warmest tubes i have with the RS1i and the midrange isn't as sweet and warm as it used to be...

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif i just tried this on my desktop running XP and agree to these findings. running KS there seems to be better separation/layering and there is more treble energy i haven't heard before, it kind of makes the music sound live. there also seems to be more space and impact. the soundstage isn't any wider, it just sounds more spacious. more 3D i guess you could say. i think i like it better than running asio plugin with asio4all. i think i still prefer WASAPI over KS because it sounds smoother.

Am I reading this wrong? Sounds like you're saying you listened to WASAPI on XP.
.

 

[SemiAudiophile]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Uthadude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I reading this wrong? Sounds like you're saying you listened to WASAPI on XP. .

i use wasapi on my laptop which runs Vista.

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemiAudiophile /img/forum/go_quote.gif i use wasapi on my laptop which runs Vista.

Thanks. Thought I was reading it wrong. Like you, I run XP on my desk and Vista on my laptop. WASAPI is native from Vista on, so I use it, like it, and have the least problems with it.

I agree with LeePerry. Poor implementation and you're dead in the water, but done correctly you should here no difference. That some people hear a difference isn't surprising. Some people think cables are tone controls. I don't disagree, I just can't hear it. I'm just worried that soon someone will say they switched from an Intel processor to an AMD and the mids are no longer veiled, or . . .

As for the OP, I remember switching from asio4all with mediamonkey to wasapi with xmplay and was blown away, but it was the particular combos and not asio vs wasapi. I have since tweaked and tested and can easily be fooled (and my wife loves to say "hah" when I'm wrong).