[skyskraper]

well the "cmoy" term is an abbreviation of a name, not a BRAND or trademark, neither is it a commercial and private design. a public design, i don't think you can say it's unethical to advertise a product that is similar or based on the design.

its hardly like saying its a grado clone, the grado is a commercial private product and design, you clone it then you're ripping something off. if you make a few tweaks to a public project and sell it as a tweaked variant of the project, i don't think thats being unethical or immoral at all.

 

[individual6891]

I have a Pony VAIO laptop and a Panatronics DVD player.

 

[rickcr42]

Am i the only one to see the humor in so many people profiting on a name associated entirely with a non-profit website ?

I think maybe Chu is the only guy in audio not to make a dime off his own name being thrown around.He may have fame but that does not pay the bills or buy dinner

 

[mono]

Quite a tricked out <cough>CMOY</cough> but I tend to agree that multiple button presses are a bit over the top.

Since this uses the thin mint tin and board-mounted switches and jacks it's not going to be as durable as some. Esthetically it's not much of a showpiece either with so much crammed onto it's circuit board. It IS nice though, just not how I would allocate the construction budget or space.

 

[dviswa]

I have to agree with Guru. Chu is being credited. If everybody is making money on his name, well the only thing it points to is perhaps Chu did not see the power of his design, did not trademark the name, or otherwise make sure he would profit from it. A common shortcoming of many engineers, sadly. Then again, if he had taken care of these issues, everybody would have avoided that design like plague and it would hardly have been this popular.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

I have to agree with Guru. Chu is being credited. If everybody is making money on his name, well the only thing it points to is perhaps Chu did not see the power of his design, did not trademark the name, or otherwise make sure he would profit from it.

his "design" is no more than a simple opamp gain stage with mini phone jacks straight off of any opamp data sheet in existance so to use the name is entirely to capitalise and use something not asked for the permission of.
Many amps bearing the name Chu Moy would be an embarrasment for Chu to be associated with but the DIY community thinks they can do or say anything,copy antyhing,plagarise anythng for profit and call it their own.

they should stick their own name to it then if so proud

I guess the orignal name of such amps,the "candy tin amp" does not bring enough recognition to the ones making the amp so they need the name recognition as a means of raking in the dough which would not be there if called "Joes amp" or "georges amp" or "My amp"....

 

[gsferrari]

Does Chu Moy have a patent?

He cannot...why? because his original design is straight out of the datasheets for op-amps. Nothing spectacular.

So I dont see anyone stopping this anytime soon unless Chu gets a trademark registered...or gets a patent for his name.

He cannot patent the design - this is for sure.


So people will stop calling it a CMOY and start calling it something else...end of story.

I dont feel bad for CMOY - I am sure he is happy with the publicity.

gs

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

He cannot...why? because his original design is straight out of the datasheets for op-amps. Nothing spectacular.

the man's name is not his own ? free to toss around by anyone for their own purposes or profit ?

I defy anyone to show me in the Headwize Article where Chu Moy calls the headphone amp, anything but "Pocket Amp"

Quote:

So I dont see anyone stopping this anytime soon unless Chu gets a trademark registered...or gets a patent for his name.

just because someone does not put up a fight does not make the issue right or wrong it just means there is no fight.

Like it seems you want with me personally which i will say once do not go there.i am as of today no more mod and will let loose things needing to be said here for a very long time about the new breed of DIY for profit gang since i will have no stake in cleaning up the mess afterwards

There is no RIGHT to another mans name just because someone wants to cash in on it for personal gain.

enjoy the thread i am

rick out

 

[gsferrari]

Oh I agree that his name should not be used. But CMOY is not his name...his name is Chu Moy. There is a difference.

Not picking a fight here at all...why would I? Just curious as to why someone would be offended by this. If you dont want people using the name CMOY then you register the name.

Rick - I am sure you are close to Chu...what is his take on this?

gs

 

[JMT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari Oh I agree that his name should not be used. But CMOY is not his name...his name is Chu Moy. There is a difference.

No, there isn't really that much of a difference. Cmoy is synonymous with Chu and his amp. "Moy" as in "Xmoy" is his last name. If the builder of this amp wasn't not trying to capitalize on the name recognition, why not call the amp something completely removed from Chu, as in "Practical Devices Headphone Amp" and reference the topology of the circuit design to be that of the Pocket Amp as seen in the Project Library of Headwize.com? Because there is a certain amount of brand recognition, brand credibility, and marketing power behind a known commodity.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Rick - I am sure you are close to Chu...what is his take on this? gs

Chu is da man that began all this by bringing everyone with like interests to one place and in conjunction with headroom the engines that were the "go' intially for the hobby.

to be truthful i have had no interaction with headwize in avery long time but i send folks with questions to what is nquestionably the single best resource for all things headphone related on the entire internet-the library.

Doe Chu Moy mind his name thrown around ?

You would have to ask him directly but my take is his name is used as no more than a selling point on products he has absolutely no financial interest in so this is in effect cashing in on a name and no more.

This is a thing that bothers me personally because the recent trend is to take the "Y" out of DIY and turn every little project into a commercial product,and even when the design belongs to another that is no impediment.

No more is it "look what I made" and then just showing the amp off but "look what I made" then "for further information I can be contacted at XXXXXX"

This trend to DIY For Profit sucks and is making my personal enjoyment level zero.
Things I would post and share I must keep secret and keep to myself for fear of seeing my own designs sold on ebay with me having nothing to say about it and if you think this a stretch man you should follow some threads and then see the market later.
I check these things and I pay attention.I am anal about the details man.

I have even resisted the temptation to post some really nice projects I have found on some obscure web pages that most here could never find on their own (I AM the links monster

) but fear seeing the thread "how do i do this" and then the next thread of "Group buy" because those selling product have zero skills and need to copy from others which in my mind is dead wrong.

the copying part itself is way cool and I have cloned many designs but where this joint differs is I build for me a "one of" for personal use while others build for profit and mass production !

This is not the intent of "DIY" and I want no part in the aiding and abetting so even a simple use of another persons name sets me off because it is not used to respect the man OR the accomplishment,the actual website project library but purely for personal profit and it leaves a really crapty taste when chewed on for a while.

didn't mean to jump you guru but you were in my sights when i was fixin' to fire the warning shot.Call it collateral damage

cheers man

rick out

 

[guzzler]

rick, what's your take on the Group Buys being exactly FOR the people who wouldn't have the skills to design for themselves, but still appreciate the fact that they can build something worthwhile and enjoyable? None of the Group Buys I've participatated in/made boards for has been for profit, as far as I know. I fully agree that putting something on eBay in the intent of making a profit on someone elses design, and then using their "brand name" as it were is wrong.

However, for example, my GMoy board is made from the original Chu Moy Pocket Article but is my layout and implementation and I don't sell them for profit, just to cover my costs. In this instance, there's no issue as the CMoy label is well recognised here and is known to refer to a certain design of amp. There's no point in calling it, "The Mega Elephant Amplifier" and expecting the sort of people who would benefit from such a board to take advantage of it when they're looking for a CMoy board.

g

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 the copying part itself is way cool and I have cloned many designs but where this joint differs is I build for me a "one of" for personal use while others build for profit and mass production !

The worst offenders have to be the Grado RA-1 clones popping up constantly on eBay. Grado really should sue, or at least get the sellers kicked off eBay (not hard to do, eBay is pretty sensitive about IP violations).

Edit -- then again, with a company as big as Grado, maybe they consider it free advertising. After all, the only thing better than a Grado RA-1 clone is... a Grado RA-1!

.

 

[rickcr42]

Quote:

Edit -- then again, with a company as big as Grado, maybe they consider it free advertising. After all, the only thing better than a Grado RA-1 clone is... a Grado RA-1! .

It is only advertising if you buy the actual product.Not the corner cutting that goes oon right here in "DIY" every single day.
I also have the beleif that Grado has a budget set aside just for the promotion of their OWN products and that no,clones will not make Grado Labs go broke from clones but that still does not make it right.

Quote:

rick, what's your take on the Group Buys being exactly FOR the people who wouldn't have the skills to design for themselves, but still appreciate the fact that they can build something worthwhile and enjoyable?

I think DIY has gone from Do It Yourself to "let me do it for you" and if you don't have the skills and want to build something AQUIRE THE DAMN SKILLS !

do the homework,do the learning curve like everyone else but don't try to justify being cheap as DIY.

Most recent example ?

Pete Millett Hybrid amp.

starts out calling the boards "highway robbery" and then ends up a "group buy"

Yeah right.I would like to see the amp built by reverse engineering and theory rather than seeing tha entire step by step article posted then deciding you are too damn chep to pay for the authorised boards.Pathetic.

the DIY forum is no more than the "Amps for sale for cheap" forum and a place where the unskilled come to set up shop by seeling things not of their own design and it makes me want to puke.

What happened to the "one of' project that a person wanted to build as both a working audio amp to be proud of AND as the means to understand basic audio electronics /

where the hell does plug part A into Hole B enter that ?

what part of DIY is this where the players are no better than unskilled low paid laborers on the average assembly line ?

how many "busnesses' should i stand by and watch form right here before my eyes and when someone wants to get their "product" up and running all the threads here are about that and notnig else ?

the ;legitimate amp manufacturers can not say boo around here unless with specific permission or unless they pay for their own forum yet we have money generating enterprises setting up shop right here and no one seems to notice or care as long as they get what they want for cheap.

again this makes me fault out ill and I refuse to play any more or even hold my tongue as i did have to do as a mod because of the gray areas and loopholes any knucklhead with a brain and intent found as a way around paying their fair share AND have no trouble at all copying the work of others for profit.

DIY is wide open and all you guys know it and since I see no way to stop the downfall of the true intent of the forum i want to part in moderating something not controllable without drastic and draconian measures being taken.

Personally this place jus tpisses me off and i have little desire to "play" in this sand box anymore.

Take it as you will folks it is only and as always just my opinion but you did ask so here it is straight from the gate.

Wonder who will be in business here tomorrow

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickcr42 Call it collateral damage

LOL ok