Worship Leader looking for some good (inexpensive) custom IEMs...
Mar 6, 2011 at 10:59 PM Post #16 of 35
Well, most headfi'ers won't like my answer, but here it goes:
 
 
I come from a long musician background, with a pretty strong experience in live sound. What you are describing is a stage that is wayy too friggin' loud. Getting everyone on ears will help. Put amps offstage or just have them turn WAY down. E2's isolate a pretty good amount if you have them in correctly, around 25dB or about the same as foam earplugs. Custom IEMs have about the same isolation factor.
 
I just bought some 1964-T's and finally had the chance to use them for two weeks, both on stage and on ipod. Compared to the e2's that I used to use, they sound great. But it's more of a difference in clarity and fullness. The e2's were honky by comparison. The triples are NOT bass monsters if there's not alot of bass in the mix, but they do reach very low and sound very full for your average mix.
 
If you want thump, then you'll never get it from even the best IEMs. Thump on stage comes from actual air moving about. Thump is felt through the body, not heard. We recently doubled our subwoofers at our church and overnight the band and congregation were very happy campers. Feeling the stage rumble with the bass and kick is just something that makes anyone with an instrument happy. Whenever we cut the mains during rehearsal, that thump disappears and we all wonder what happened to our in-ear mix. The fullness and depth are still there, but the visceral thump is gone. You can often get away with lots of LF energy without blasting a congregation away.
 
Often performers either put subs only on stage to complement IEMs or they'll use buttkickers for the drummer and a buttkicker plate for the bassist. I've never used it but many say they really enjoy that approach.
 
What is your PA situation like?
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 12:13 AM Post #17 of 35
Cheapest customs option I think would be getting a pair of BA universal iems and getting them reshelled by fisher.  you can get a pretty decent custom setup for about 200-250.... if you find someone selling trip.fi's for amazon's sale price on the FS forums and then reshelling.....or even the klipsch custom 3's reshelled
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 1:09 AM Post #18 of 35
wesarvin: hey, great advice man. I'm sure OP'll appreciate that.
 
And yes, you don't necessarily get more isolation from customs than universals. A really good front-of-house sound guy I know has told me that even though he tried having customs (LiveWires) for a while, he's since come to the conclusion that Etymotics are the best for pure isolation (though I believe they're more prone to microphonics).
 
Anyway, I've got musicians who no longer even care for "good" IEMs for live sound. One of them's selling his TripleFi because he doesn't even need that level of quality.
 
Also,as wesarvin said: get the amps off-stage if you can. I hear that Hillsongs puts their guitar and bass amps underneath the stage, and mic the amps there--this seems a great way to deal with feedback and general stage bleed. There was one week where my electric guitarist emulated that solution by mic-ing his amp in a room behind the stage (with the door closed); proof that you don't even have to spend extra to make your current equipment work better.
 
Ultimately, you may still choose to spend your own money on customs, and that's fine. I think what we're trying to do is help keep your expectations realistic, and help you find a feasible solution that works for the whole band and congregation too.
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 1:11 AM Post #19 of 35
wesarvin... Our PA system is atrocious, but we are getting a great boost in the coming months... No Subs yet, and we are using EV mains with QSC Amps... from a Mackie board.  Pretty much everything is mic'd up... use wedge monitor system (which is the issue) This is a very dated system, but we work with what we got... we will definitely be getting pretty much a new system complete... We plan on spending about 80k - 90k on the system, which I know isn't a ton... but it will be alot better than what we got... Our Bassists and Electric Guitarists mic their amps, but still they use too much volume out of their amps, they still use them for their own monitors... which kind of defeats the purpose... Really, we need to just go in-ear all the way.  
but yes, the subs will be coming for the LF.... thanks for your thoughts... 
 
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 1:12 AM Post #20 of 35
Oh and before I forget:
My friends who play at church were recommending an Aviom system if you want to consider it.
http://www.aviom.com/
 
Aviom's apparently not the cheapest solution to IEM-up the band, but it comes with limiters--which are important because "you do not want a signal spike from someone's guitar cable popping out going straight to your brain". (says my friend, who's actually a recording artiste--bassist--with an indie band)
 
At the most basic level, you need something that takes in XLR inputs (preferably more than 1) and assigns them out to minijack outputs. The XLR inputs are what usually get channeled to your floor monitors, so your mixer board should have control over what goes into them.
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 1:21 AM Post #21 of 35
Eric, 
Thanks... ya, I agree with you on the amps off stage... I actually used to be at a church with amp closets which I loved!  We had 4 separate rooms behind the stage wired to floor boxes on the stage and literally no stage noise at all... and they would turn their amps up full blast and set suspended mics up in the room... It was overkill, but the guitarists loved it... And we all had in-ears...
 
Well, that is disappointing about customs not being any better at attenuating sound.  I have been told they do... but I guess now I am hearing they are not.. bummer. But I still really do need some better detail, not just for my guitar work, but really for my vocal stuff... Really, it will make a difference to me... Thanks Eric, good stuff.. 
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 11:00 AM Post #22 of 35
Anthony,
 
How big is your room? We have a space about 80ftx40ft and hold about 200 people in a service, and 4 powered 18in subs and two 1x15 powered tops have plenty of power to put 92dB in the back of the room, all while still feeling the low end in your chest. 80-90K is alot of money. Our whole system is under 10K.
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 2:20 PM Post #23 of 35
ya, well 80 - 90k isn't that much at our level... the last church I attended put 1.5 million into their sound... and they did a lot of the work themselves.... They had overkill for sure... that church had a big abundance in funds... but they truly used it for the right reasons, and they gave ALOT of money away, so don't think they are selfish, I kind of feel bad about telling people how much they spent on their sound, they easily spent many times that on missions and building churches in other countries... anyways, 
 
80 - 90 k, includes all the media stuff as well, so computers, and projectors, lighting, truss rigs, movable drum cage, movable staging, and cabling. really, it sounds like a lot, but we are going for  professional band rider stuff, and it will be a stretch trust me... Our services are currently held in our gym, it holds about 500 people max if you include the bleachers... (which we don't use)... anyways, we definitely will be using subs,still not decided on powered or amped... also, the acoustics are horrible in a square room with no acoustic tiling... so anyways... how did we get into talking about this stuff? OK... well I appreciate your help wesarvin... I think still looking at some custom in ears personally... 
 
Mar 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM Post #24 of 35
Sorry for steering off-topic. I was just pointing out mine and others experience in the same sort of situation. The guys over at Prosoundweb will be more than willing to offer the same sort of advice for that situation.
 
The 1964 t's were definitely an improvement over the e2's on stage. However, a great mix both in the ears and in the room made the greatest difference. Once our drummer could feel himself in the house, he backed off alot and started playing quieter and with more dynamics.
 
The customs are great. You won't be dissapointed.
 
Mar 13, 2011 at 2:27 PM Post #26 of 35
Well I settled on the 1964 -Ts... Dropped off my impressions on Friday.  Will probably be a few weeks until I get them, but I am excited.  Thank you all.. 
- Anthony 
 
 
Apr 29, 2011 at 11:14 PM Post #27 of 35
Ok, these are truly great.  The sound is perfect, plenty of bass.. the sound isolation is way better than my Shures ever were... and 1964ears were great to work with... top notch, super satisfied. 
 
Apr 30, 2011 at 1:35 AM Post #29 of 35


Quote:
permagrin said:
Are you using a profundity of ellipses for lack of English comprehension or are you just confused?

I apologize but I am quite serious.
Click to expand...

Just imagine the posts being read by William Shatner.
 
Problem solved.
 
 
 
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