Woo's New Flagship WA33
Jun 19, 2018 at 12:46 PM Post #196 of 3,212
I'll give a brief comparison, but with the stock tubes in the WA33.
I can tell you right now, that for me, the Utopia could never replace my 009/BHSE, they're just 2 different animals. Too me, they sound nothing alike.
I knew this (well) before buying the Utopia. I bought the WA33 to hear how much of an improvement there might be with the Utopia (and my other headphones) compared to the GS-X (which isn't going anywhere) even if I find the WA33 enjoyably different.
 
Jun 19, 2018 at 7:57 PM Post #198 of 3,212
Hi @joseph69 to address your concern about the "quality" of the switches. The quality is what we focused on when choosing parts for all of our products. In the case of the WA33, we use the ultra-premium ElectroSwitch rotary switches. Their switches are designed for mission-critical tasks and they are the primary supplier of high-quality products for electrical utilities, and the U.S. Navy. Sure, it does not have the buttery-smooth feel of switches found in consumer electronics but it is not a toy in regards to the quality.

Part of the break-in process is also allowing your ears to adjust to the new sound. We recommend customers to enjoy the system as normal during the break-in period. The sound will improve with every use. We hope you can allow the system settle-in before doing critical listenings.

Don’t hesitate to reach out to us if you have questions or concerns. We’re here to help. :)

http://electroswitch.com/electroswitchesandrelays/default.htm

Screen Shot 2018-06-19 at 4.06.08 PM.jpg
 
Jun 19, 2018 at 9:01 PM Post #199 of 3,212
Woo actually recommended the WA5 for me over the WA33 since i have the Ether Flow and planning to get Focal Clear. I have to do some investigation but I am getting noise through my system when either A/C unit in house kicks on and you get that quick brown out. I'm using PS Audio Dectect at the moment and when I called tech support they said it shouldn't be doing that. It going to be a while before I finally decide.

Yeah, the WA33 and WA5-[LE] are very different amps, as is the WA6-SE, all of which could easily drive your Ether Flows. Apart from overall power and balanced versus single-ended design, the WA33 uses 2A3 power tubes, which sound lovely but put out very little power on their own, hence using them in a fully-balanced amp to at least double your power. The WA5[-LE] uses 300B's, which are great and have about twice the power of 2A3's, but have a midrange "blossom" so aren't tonally as neutral. The WA6-SE puts out the least power of all using dual-triodes as combined driver/power tubes, originally 6DE7 's but now 13DE7's because the 6DE7's are so hard to find. (I think I read they were created at first to use in portable TV sets ... ???) I love the sound of my older WA6-SE with NOS TungSol 6DE7's, don't really know much about the 13DE7's. It's also getting hard to find any, much less good, 2A3's. 300B's are still around but Western Electric made the best by far, I think, and *may* resume production this year ... All three amps use 5U4G rectifier tubes for the AC power, but only the WA5[-LE] uses two of them for truly separate power to both channels. Another thing to think about, disregarding cost, is the WA5[-LE] with the premium parts using the superb but almost extinct Black Gate capacitors along with Mundorf's and V-Caps. It's almost worth the extra $1250 just to get the Black Gates and when they're gone, they are gone for good (as in not made anymore) not available, officially, for the WA33 or WA6-SE. I've never heard the WA33, which started its life (no retail sales, just Woo-owned prototypes) as the "WA22-SE" until Jack Wu went nuts (<joke>) and built the WA33. I imagine it's great if you need that much balanced power and can find some really superb NOS 2A3's (a matched quad or matched set of four). I'm still very fond of the WA6-SE within its limits because I think it sounds "purer" than either the WA5[-LE] or the original WA22; but mine has those 6DE7's and I trust Woo but have never heard 13DE7's. Although my WA6-SE pairs superbly with my original Ethers, I don't know anything about the Ether Flows. Jack knows far more about his amps than I do, but I think his suggestion of the WA-5[-LE] is solid; just spring for the parts upgrades if you can and try to find some great NOS 300B's, just not the Takatsuki's (way overpriced) or the Sophia Royal Princess's (too unreliable). The exception with Sophia Princess, in my own experience, is the 274B Sophia Mesh Plate rectifier tubes (direct replacement for the 5U4G's), with just a touch of tonal warmth, run OK in practice, and are just very, very pretty to look at. I got my WA5-LE before Woo offered the parts upgrades (darn) but used two 274B Sophia Mesh Plate rectifier tubes, some NOS Phillips 6SN7 driver tubes, and a pair of slightly-used but well-matched Western Electric 300B's, I got a great overall combination on anything from my Ethers to original HE-1000's to the original Abyss AB-1266's (which I didn't have for long because, I'm sorry, but for that much cash, they just shouldn't look that ugly or weigh so heavily on your head). I think I've said enough (except for, "Go, Moon Audio, your cables rock ... ").
 
Jun 19, 2018 at 11:36 PM Post #200 of 3,212
I was rotating the impedance/level switches from H to L and vise-versa several times just to get aquatinted with the sound differences using 3 different impedance headphones. I realized that these switches need to be turned quickly, then they feel fine. When they're turned slowly (like I was doing) and as @HiFiGuy528 mentioned, they're not buttery smooth, I didn't know this, but definitely expected them to be buttery smooth as you already know from my reaction. I now know that they feel rather lumpy when being turned slowly like I've never experienced. My apologies for the outburst and negative remarks. Understanding now how they're supposed to feel, and finding out for myself that tuning them quickly they feel fine,
I have no issues with them at all. Again, my apologies to all...I don'twant to mislead anyone on the build quality.

Now as for my initial (and I stress initial) impressions.
I left the amp on for 3hrs (with headphones connected) and did some listening for about 1-1/2 hrs this afternoon between my RS1i/Utopia?HD6XX and I can say I was quite impressed! I was actually overwhelmed at how good all of the headphones I tried with the WA33 sounded, especially with the stock tubes and the little amount of time the amp was powered on. I've been listening tonight for the past 1-1/2 hrs with the Utopia and am enjoying it very much.
 
Jun 20, 2018 at 2:35 AM Post #201 of 3,212
I'll give a brief comparison, but with the stock tubes in the WA33.
I can tell you right now, that for me, the Utopia could never replace my 009/BHSE, they're just 2 different animals. Too me, they sound nothing alike.
I knew this (well) before buying the Utopia. I bought the WA33 to hear how much of an improvement there might be with the Utopia (and my other headphones) compared to the GS-X (which isn't going anywhere) even if I find the WA33 enjoyably different.

Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.

The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?

I've never heard the BHSE or the GS-X. I've heard good things about them; but I also heard good things about the now-defunct Cavalli Liquid Gold, but when I compared one directly to the Woo WA5-LE, the Woo just sounded more like music, YMMV.

Without meaning to step on Focal's toes, I tried the Utopias and just didn't like them even with the WA5-LE. It seems that, when choosing between the Utopias and the Sennheiser HD-800S's, listeners prefer the HD-800's at least in some uncontrolled tests.

I'm very fond of the planar-magnetic Ethers, which are closer in design to the 009's (but not *that* close) plus the planar-magnetic HE-1000's.

I don't mean this in a critical way at all, but the WA33 and BHSE are vastly different amps for altogether vastly different types of headphones. I'd be curious about how the BHSE compares to the 3ES or WES with the 009's, all electrostatic stuff.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the WA33 versus GS-X, more of an apples to apples comparison if you use the same headphones (within reasonable limits). My guess is---just speculating---that the TH-900's with either the WA33 or GS-X will sound closer to the 009's using either the BHSE or another electrostatic amp than the Utopias ever will.
 
Jun 20, 2018 at 7:36 AM Post #202 of 3,212
Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.

The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?

I've never heard the BHSE or the GS-X. I've heard good things about them; but I also heard good things about the now-defunct Cavalli Liquid Gold, but when I compared one directly to the Woo WA5-LE, the Woo just sounded more like music, YMMV.

Without meaning to step on Focal's toes, I tried the Utopias and just didn't like them even with the WA5-LE. It seems that, when choosing between the Utopias and the Sennheiser HD-800S's, listeners prefer the HD-800's at least in some uncontrolled tests.

I'm very fond of the planar-magnetic Ethers, which are closer in design to the 009's (but not *that* close) plus the planar-magnetic HE-1000's.

I don't mean this in a critical way at all, but the WA33 and BHSE are vastly different amps for altogether vastly different types of headphones. I'd be curious about how the BHSE compares to the 3ES or WES with the 009's, all electrostatic stuff.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the WA33 versus GS-X, more of an apples to apples comparison if you use the same headphones (within reasonable limits). My guess is---just speculating---that the TH-900's with either the WA33 or GS-X will sound closer to the 009's using either the BHSE or another electrostatic amp than the Utopias ever will.

Interesting. The TH900 is the opposite of the SR-009; the former has a strong V-shaped sound signature and very closed in sound, the latter has a linear frequency response and extremely open sound.

The GS-X Mk2 is the real deal. Cavalli amps have lots of build quality issues, lower quality components, and other issues which you can read about on head-case. Not in the same league.
 
Jun 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM Post #203 of 3,212
Yeah, independent of anything else, the Utopias and 009's work in very different ways, so they're very unlikely to sound the same at all; although, you *might* like both in different ways or you *might* not.

The closest I've heard dynamic headphones come to the 009's are the Fostex TH-900's, for some reason ... ?

I've never heard the BHSE or the GS-X. I've heard good things about them; but I also heard good things about the now-defunct Cavalli Liquid Gold, but when I compared one directly to the Woo WA5-LE, the Woo just sounded more like music, YMMV.

Without meaning to step on Focal's toes, I tried the Utopias and just didn't like them even with the WA5-LE. It seems that, when choosing between the Utopias and the Sennheiser HD-800S's, listeners prefer the HD-800's at least in some uncontrolled tests.

I'm very fond of the planar-magnetic Ethers, which are closer in design to the 009's (but not *that* close) plus the planar-magnetic HE-1000's.

I don't mean this in a critical way at all, but the WA33 and BHSE are vastly different amps for altogether vastly different types of headphones. I'd be curious about how the BHSE compares to the 3ES or WES with the 009's, all electrostatic stuff.

I'll be curious to see what you think of the WA33 versus GS-X, more of an apples to apples comparison if you use the same headphones (within reasonable limits). My guess is---just speculating---that the TH-900's with either the WA33 or GS-X will sound closer to the 009's using either the BHSE or another electrostatic amp than the Utopias ever will.
Owning both already, I feel they don't sound the same, but I do like them both for their differences. I agree, There is something about both the WA6 & WA33 that doe's sound very magically musical, which BTW are the only 2 Woo amps I've ever heard, and currently own. I didn't like the Utopia myself until the 3rd time I borrowed them...I thought were fantastic compared to the first pair (when they were just released) which definitely had something wrong with them, which I didn't know at the time. The second time, they didn't impress me either? The third time was a charm. The pair I finally purchased sounded great right out if the box.

I actually sold my 800S. based only on their lack of bass impact (too me, and I'm no bass head) after purchasing the Utopia because they weren't getting enough head time. At that time I didn't know I was going to be purchasing the WA33 or I would have kept them because the WA33 has nice bass, so they probably would pair very well together. I just might have to re-purchase them.

I also agree strongly agree with @Rhamnetin about the 009 having an "extremely open sound" which at the same time integrates the different instruments and vocal like I've never heard before.
 
Jun 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM Post #204 of 3,212
When comparing systems, I recommend using each system for a few days to allow your ears and brain to adjust to the new sound. If you simply go from one to another side by side, you are basically going by your short-term memory.
 
Jun 22, 2018 at 9:56 AM Post #206 of 3,212
Hello All,

I cannot remember if I mentioned it in an earlier post but I get a buzzing through my current tube amp when either HVAC unit turns on. My house has two separate breaker panels and two HVAC units on each panel. The HVAC unit on the other breaker panel still causes noise. I am currently in touch with PS Audio trying to troubleshoot I just have been out of town during the day and can call them back.

Question: Does balanced architecture help with this?
 
Jun 29, 2018 at 3:12 PM Post #208 of 3,212
I finally got my Utopia back from Focal (they sent me a new pair after warranty due to creaking in the left cup) and I get some quiet time with the WA33. You know people always complain about how teeny tiny little the soundstage of the Utopia is? Not so with the WA33. Under LO impedance and LO level, the soundstage of the Utopia is wide. This is important. When you switched on to HI level, you get a lot more impact with the Utopia, but you get more distortion and the soundstage compresses significantly.

I'm a Woo Audio fan so take what I said with a lot of salt, but I have never heard the Utopia sound better, ever. The soundstage of the Focal headphones isn't tall (you don't get the massive envelopment you do with the Susvara or the HE-1 for example), but driven by WA33, you can feel the width, you can perceive the depth and blackness between the layers of instruments, and of course, every note of music. It's like you have two long cylinders on either side of the head and you can tell where along the length the instruments are placed.

High quality recording (I'm not specifically talking about bitrate, I'm talking about how well the song was mastered) makes a huge difference with things that discriminates against low-quality recordings like the Utopia and WA33. So many things contribute to what you hear at the end, and people dump hate on the Utopia pretty often. It can be just me, but when the Utopia gets the upstream gears it deserves like the WA33 and some euphonious DAC like the Schiit Gungnir Multibit, all you hear is magic.

(I tried the Yggdrasil and didn't like it much)
 
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Jun 29, 2018 at 3:20 PM Post #209 of 3,212
Excellent post. I agree completely- the Utopia soundstage is beautifully wide on the WA33. The combination is truly fantastic and magical when an excellent source is available. I can also attest the combination seems to have no upper boundaries- I’ve reached an Aurender w20 running into a Berkeley reference dac. Every change for the better in the signal chain will be revealed by the Utopia/wa33 combination.
 
Jun 29, 2018 at 11:29 PM Post #210 of 3,212
You know people always complain about how teeny tiny little the soundstage of the Utopia is? Not so with the WA33. Under LO impedence and LO level, the soundstage of the Utopia is wide. This is important. When you switched on to HI level, you get a lot more impact with the Utopia, but you get more distortion and the soundstage compressed significantly.
This is exactly what I heard with the WA33/Utopia combo, the entire sound was huge! I thought the impact was excellent with both the impedance & level set to LO.
 

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