[headfinoob]

Aren't the vast majority of USB DACs that work in Windows UAC1?  To my knowledge Microsoft has no plans on implementing UAC2 support into Windows 8.  So essentially, anything that is UAC2 needs to have a manufacturer driver.  I would expect Android to be similar to Windows in that regard.
 

 

[DanBa]

USB audio is enabled on a Linux-powered Logitech Squeezebox Touch.
 
An applet, "Enhanced Digital Output" (EDO), allows a custom kernel to be installed and provides menus to select the audio output device.
This custom kernel can support 24/192 UAC2 USB DACs. 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/news-blog-and-showcase/john-darkos-blog/item/362-enhanced-digital-output-applet-for-squeezebox-touch
 
"There are two speeds that USB DACs can run at: full speed and high speed. 
Full speed: 12 mega bits (Mb) per sec. Max sample rate is 96KHz.
High speed: 480Mb/s, supports 192KHz and up. 
 
There are two generic "protocols": USB Audio Class (UAC) 1.0 and UAC 2.0
UAC1.0 was the original which came out before high speed mode was invented, thus it does not support high speed mode, thus it is limited to a max 96KHz sample rate.
 
UAC2.0: supports both full speed and high speed, DOES support 192 (but only at high speed), multi channel etc. All DACs that use UAC2.0 do so in order to run at high speed and support 192. Some of these will "downgrade" to UAC 1.0 and full speed if the DAC is plugged into a computer that does not support UAC2.0
 
There are two "modes" in common use: adaptive and asynchronous. In adaptive the DAC has to change the frequency of its internal clock to match the average data rate of whats coming over the USB bus. In asynchronous the DAC uses a fixed frequency clock and tells the computer to slow down or speed up the data transfer rate. Asynch can theoretically sound better. 
 
Any particular DAC will have a mix of these. There are some combinations that don't seem to get built: all the implementations I know of that use UAC2.0 are also Async, and I don't know of any DACs that run UAC2.0 and just full speed. Async can exist in both UAC1.0 and UAC2.0.
 
So how does this relate to EDO?
 
There seems to be a bug in the Touch hardware that prevents async from working properly when running at full speed. In this case you need the USB 2.0 hub which talks to the Touch at high speed, but talks to the DAC at full speed. This gets around the bug in the Touch. This is only needed for an async full speed DAC. An adaptive full speed DAC or a high speed DAC of any type can be used without the hub. Thus if your DAC is a full speed only DAC (ie has a maximum sample rate of 96KHz) and you get ticks and pops, it is probably running using async mode and will need the hub to work properly.
 
Any other DAC does not need the hub to work properly. But should still work even if you do use a hub. 
 
Thus if your DAC supports 192, you do not need the hub. If your DAC only goes up to 96KHz, it may or may not need the hub.
 
In all these cases the DAC must be plugged into the Touch and turned on before the Touch is booted. This process will tell the server what the maximum sample rate of the DAC is, thus it should automatically downsample in the server only if the DAC does not support the sample rate. (of course this assumes that the DAC is honest about what it tells the Touch)."
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput&p=701516&viewfull=1#post701516

 

[headfinoob]

Quote:

There are some combinations that don't seem to get built: all the implementations I know of that use UAC2.0 are also Async, and I don't know of any DACs that run UAC2.0 and just full speed. Async can exist in both UAC1.0 and UAC2.0.
 

I believe the HRT Linestreamer is UAC1 only, but perhaps I'm incorrect.
Quote:

Thus if your DAC is a full speed only DAC (ie has a maximum sample rate of 96KHz) and you get ticks and pops, it is probably running using async mode and will need the hub to work properly.

I've never heard of a problem with ticks and pops when engaged in asynchronous mode, that is kind-of ironic in a sense and and an unfortunate bug.
 
What I find to be somewhat upsetting is that Microsoft hasn't implemented UAC2 native support yet.  That puts us at the whim of the manufacturer when it comes to being able to use UAC2 devices in Windows.
I would find it a bit ridiculous that Android would be able to support it, but not Windows.  Has it been confirmed yet that the GS3 or any other Android devices will support UAC2 natively?  Will we be at the mercy of the DAC manufacturer like with Windows?
Please correct me if I am incorrect, I don't want to spread false information.

 

[DanBa]

"[size=small]From mid-2010 on both OSX and Linux supports USB audio class 2 natively.[/size]
[size=small] If the DAC is USB audio class 2 compliant it will play up to 32/384 on these systems without the need to install additional drivers.[/size]
[size=small] Microsoft doesn't have a native mode USB Audio class 2 driver. You need to install a third party Class 2 Audio driver at the PC side."[/size]
[size=small] http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC.htm[/size]
[size=small]  [/size]
[size=small] Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich includes the same USB audio driver for ALSA than Linux.[/size]
[size=small] https://github.com/Ezekeel/GLaDOS-nexus-prime/blob/glados-cfs/sound/usb/card.c[/size]
[size=small]  [/size]

 

[fueltank]

So how is the SQ on the GS3? besides some DAC's not working

 

[danny93]

Quote:

So how is the SQ on the GS3? besides some DAC's not working

+ 1!!!!!

 

[NZtechfreak]

Can't say much as this stage, it's certainly not bad but it is easily apparent that it's no match for the iPhone (was A/B'ing them last night with my Senn HD-251-IIs, will have a listen with my ACS-T15s tomorrow probably, doubt there is any point in trying with my GS1000s or LCD-2s with either phone).
 
Relative to the iPhone the I'd say this of the S3: lower volume output, less resolving, bass not as tight and well controlled, mids/highs muffled in comparison, less dynamic and so less engaging to listen to (bear in mind that was listening to predominantly rock and metal, will break out some jazz/hip hop/other stuff soon). So, to my ear at any rate on my brief listening so far it doesn't come close to unseating the iPhone. That's why I'm investing some time and energy into the possibility of DACs, and also waiting for what Supercurio can do for us.

 

[elfary]

Quote:

Can't say much as this stage, it's certainly not bad but it is easily apparent that it's no match for the iPhone (was A/B'ing them last night with my Senn HD-251-IIs, will have a listen with my ACS-T15s tomorrow probably, doubt there is any point in trying with my GS1000s or LCD-2s with either phone).
 
Relative to the iPhone the I'd say this of the S3: lower volume output, less resolving, bass not as tight and well controlled, mids/highs muffled in comparison, less dynamic and so less engaging to listen to (bear in mind that was listening to predominantly rock and metal, will break out some jazz/hip hop/other stuff soon). So, to my ear at any rate on my brief listening so far it doesn't come close to unseating the iPhone. That's why I'm investing some time and energy into the possibility of DACs, and also waiting for what Supercurio can do for us.

 
Even if at GSMArena don't do RMAAs properly i kind of expected what you are saying. Loaded and unloaded data were far from the iPhone. Output impedance was the key to how good the thing would sound. And what you say does not sound awesome...
 
Actually part of what you notice smells to me like high output impedance. Far from the 1.9 ohms of the iPhone 4S or the 0.97 of the iPhone 4.
 
It seems that iPhone will remain one more season as the king of headphone outputs. Certainly it's very tough to beat the numbers of iPhones' headphone outs (Output impedance, noise floor, distortin and crosstalk are impressive).

 

[owen241]

Can Samsung Galaxy S3 play flac files?

comparing S3 to upcoming iphone 5. do you think i should wait, or just get S3.

 

[Diablo3]

Got it today. I have a bunch of high end portable amps and DACs but the sound of the S3 straight out to my Westone ES5 is pretty amazing. I had the iPhone 4 and now have the iPhone 4S. I also  have the Galaxy Nexus which is to be sold. Among all these, I feel the sound of the iPhone 4 to be most accurate, and the iPhone 4S a bit emphasized on the upper bass area - I prefer the sound quality of iPhone 4 over 4S, although the difference is small.
 
On the Android side, the Galaxy Nexus produces the best mid range and has the best synergy with my ES5 in my experience, but the Galaxy S3 is, IMO, the best sounding of all the recent phones I have had, as far as my ES5 is concerned - very natural albeit a bit less accurate - more "analog" sound, with an obviously wider soundstage than my iPhones. The dynamics on the Galaxy S3 is also better than the 4S IMO. However, compared with the Galaxy Nexus, the vocal from the Galaxy S3 is a bit less intimate. Anyway, when I listen back to my iPhone 4S with my ES5, its sound is a bit too accurate for me to the point that it is a bit "digital".
 
Of course, when it comes to use with external DACs and amps, nothing beats the 4/4S, simply because it has dedicated portable DACs on the market, namely the CLAS and the Fostex HP-P1, whereas there is no dedicated portable DACs (or any DACs) for any Android so far. But for pure IEM use straight out from a phone, I find the Nexus -> ES5 combo and the Galaxy S3 -> ES5 more  satisfying than the iPhones, but, your mileage may vary.
 
With the Wolfson DAC on the S3, I am naturally wondering whether there will be Voodoo mods like they did on S1. I never owned an S1 but heard that the sound quality from Voodoo on S1 is the best one can ever have on a phone.
 
 

 

[elfary]

I wish some properly carried out measurements pop out. Anyway i'll pay a listen to it this weekend.
 

 

[Diablo3]

My Antelope Zodiac Gold supports up to 384/32, but how do I connect it to my Galaxy S3? AFAIK there is no USB "B" type to mini USB connector on the market, at least not high end ones. I connect my MacBook Pro to the Zodiac Gold via a Wireworld Platinum Eclipse USB cable and the sound is much better than the stock USB cable, so I am wondering if I can use the S3 as a portable transport and has it output to the Zodiac Gold.
Quote:

USB audio is enabled on a Linux-powered Logitech Squeezebox Touch.
 
An applet, "Enhanced Digital Output" (EDO), allows a custom kernel to be installed and provides menus to select the audio output device.
This custom kernel can support 24/192 UAC2 USB DACs. 
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net.au/index.php/news-blog-and-showcase/john-darkos-blog/item/362-enhanced-digital-output-applet-for-squeezebox-touch
 
"There are two speeds that USB DACs can run at: full speed and high speed. 
Full speed: 12 mega bits (Mb) per sec. Max sample rate is 96KHz.
High speed: 480Mb/s, supports 192KHz and up. 
 
There are two generic "protocols": USB Audio Class (UAC) 1.0 and UAC 2.0
UAC1.0 was the original which came out before high speed mode was invented, thus it does not support high speed mode, thus it is limited to a max 96KHz sample rate.
 
UAC2.0: supports both full speed and high speed, DOES support 192 (but only at high speed), multi channel etc. All DACs that use UAC2.0 do so in order to run at high speed and support 192. Some of these will "downgrade" to UAC 1.0 and full speed if the DAC is plugged into a computer that does not support UAC2.0
 
There are two "modes" in common use: adaptive and asynchronous. In adaptive the DAC has to change the frequency of its internal clock to match the average data rate of whats coming over the USB bus. In asynchronous the DAC uses a fixed frequency clock and tells the computer to slow down or speed up the data transfer rate. Asynch can theoretically sound better. 
 
Any particular DAC will have a mix of these. There are some combinations that don't seem to get built: all the implementations I know of that use UAC2.0 are also Async, and I don't know of any DACs that run UAC2.0 and just full speed. Async can exist in both UAC1.0 and UAC2.0.
 
So how does this relate to EDO?
 
There seems to be a bug in the Touch hardware that prevents async from working properly when running at full speed. In this case you need the USB 2.0 hub which talks to the Touch at high speed, but talks to the DAC at full speed. This gets around the bug in the Touch. This is only needed for an async full speed DAC. An adaptive full speed DAC or a high speed DAC of any type can be used without the hub. Thus if your DAC is a full speed only DAC (ie has a maximum sample rate of 96KHz) and you get ticks and pops, it is probably running using async mode and will need the hub to work properly.
 
Any other DAC does not need the hub to work properly. But should still work even if you do use a hub. 
 
Thus if your DAC supports 192, you do not need the hub. If your DAC only goes up to 96KHz, it may or may not need the hub.
 
In all these cases the DAC must be plugged into the Touch and turned on before the Touch is booted. This process will tell the server what the maximum sample rate of the DAC is, thus it should automatically downsample in the server only if the DAC does not support the sample rate. (of course this assumes that the DAC is honest about what it tells the Touch)."
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput&p=701516&viewfull=1#post701516

 

[Diablo3]

Quote:

I wish some properly carried out measurements pop out. Anyway i'll pay listen to it this weekend.
 

 
I think you need to break in the phone a bit first in order to hear its full potential. My Galaxy S3 is in the middle of that process. I am using the iPhone's stock earbud to do that right now.  I know how ridiculous this sounds "breaking in a phone", but as any DACs would required considerable burn in time, there is no reason that the same does not apply to a mobile phone's DAC.

 

[elfary]

I believe more in objective numbers than in burn in. But i'd be delighted to know that is has less 2 ohms of output impedance and a crosstalk lower than -60 dB when driving a 16 ohm load which are the main reasons for the iPhone tight yet open sound. Burn in takes place but it does not make a night and day difference. In my experience at least.
 
This weekend i'll be listening to it for other reason (Mainly shielding) thru my Westone UM3x and Shure SE420. On almost every Android i've tried i can notice hiss when i hit the pause button. So i'm curious to listen if the background is pitch black this time around. But it's just for the record since Android is not my cup of tea.
 
Beforehand i'd bet that it will sound very similar to a Galaxy S which in my book is good but not great.
 
But hey whatever floats...

 

[Diablo3]

Have you heard the Galaxy Nexus? Its vocal presentation is much better than my iPhone 4/4S IMO. Among all my recent phones, the Galaxy S2 sounded worst, no doubt, but the Galaxy Nexus does give some of the more expensive portable amps out there a run for money. As for the S3, I am minded to give it some more time before makinga conclusion, but for the type of music I listen to, I prefer the Galaxy Nexus as at this moment.
 
Does anyone know if there is any other mobile phone using Texas Instrument DAC chip like the Galaxy Nexus does?
 
As for hissing, it is no surprise, as the Westones are quite senstive - my ES5 also hisses a bit on the S3 (but dead quiet with the Galaxy Nexus), but once I switch to my UE 18 Pro, the hissing disappears.