[Bytor123]

Isn't nearly all 'fi', 'chi'?

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Isn't nearly all 'fi', 'chi'?

Probably depends on the price range you are looking at. Most lower cost audio gear is made in China as it is not feasible to produce it in other countries because of labor costs. I think Schiit may be the only audio company I know that pierced that veil with their $99 units. Once gear starts getting more expensive, you'll find it's produced all over the world, because people enthusiastic about their product like to have control over the manufacturing process. This can be difficult especially for smaller companies that try and have gear made in China.

Here's just some of the U.S. audio manufacturers: https://americanmadeaudio.com/the-list/

As far as all gear from certain locations being poor sounding, I think that's too broad a stroke to paint. Every country has gear with differing levels of quality and reliability. Price is not always a good indicator of either. Generally looking at the inside of a unit is the best way to evaluate, however you have to know what you are looking at.

I tend to buy U.S. made gear mostly because if it needs to be fixed I don't need to send it overseas.

 

[Mark200]

It seems to me that more and more people do not care if a guitar sound as close to the real life as possible, more and more people seem to only care about measurements and graphs from computers on paper because, when a computer says it sounds better, it does have to, or not?

First of all, there are two kinds of audiophiles:

• Those who primarily look at measurements/graphs.
• Those who claim to hear meaningful differences between two well-made cables (speaker level, line level, and even power cords).

At least the people who look at the measurements/graphs are "somewhat" objective, even if those measurements don't tell the entire story about the musicality of the equipment.

The variabilities in the recording process from one album to another is huge. Most recording engineers tune their recording based on the assumption that the vast majority of listeners will be using some cheap earbuds with an iPhone, instead of high quality playback equipment. I find it hard to even listen to classic rock recordings, even those that have been remastered, due to the high quality of modern hi-fi equipment. So there is very often a conflict between choosing equipment that makes a mediocre recording sound acceptable (being not too revealing), versus equipment that is very accurate and makes the same mediocre recording sound horrible. It's often hard to strike a balance between the two. But if one has a high quality recording, with high quality and revealing equipment (along with a great musical performance), it can be an amazing experience, which to me can be a very accurate reproduction of the real thing.

Musicians are more interested in the musical quality of the performance (which usually means a specific performer), that may be from older recording that was not particularly well-engineered, or it may be older recording technology, so they don't want to hear all the imperfections in the recording with modern state of the art electronics.

Also, one of the problems is that most audiophiles don't spend as much time listening to live music compared to musicians, so they don't really know what a live guitar sounds like.

But whatever one thinks about audiophiles and their (our) peculiarities, there a lot worse things that a person can grow up to be.

 

[Mark200]

I haven't heard a well tuned Japanese iem/headphone. However, Chifi has lots of different offerings that some are good tuning and gives much much much better values than Japanese products.

Z1R is just a good example of Sony has no idea how to tune. And they overcharge your for avg sound.

I really don't own Japanese iem/headphone/amps, etc.. because there is no reference Japanese sound. I do have several Chinese products including Hifiman, Moondrop, etc.. ect.. and I only use SEnnheiser headphones. Never their iems.

Japanese headphones audio is like their movies. They kinda suck. I wish there was a Japanese Elden Ring of audio products. You know, some people that can design audio like FromSoftware can for video games?

Yamaha headphones are fairly good IMO, especially in the lower to mid price range. But I am not that impressed with Sony these days.

But in the end, it doesn't make that much difference where a product is manufactured, as much as where it was designed and engineered. Just because something is "made" in China doesn't mean that the Chinese had anything to do with the design or choosing the components. Unfortunately, there are some companies that just import Chinese engineered and designed products and rebrand them, and those can be quite bad in some circumstances.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Here's just some of the U.S. audio manufacturers: https://americanmadeaudio.com/the-list/

I'd like to see a definitive list of made-in-America but that site is not it. For example, they list Klipsch. I have a pair of Klipsch speakers and they're made in China. Many of these companies listed design things domestically and have some or most of the products made offshore.

 

[Spareribs]

A previous poster asked if all “Fi” is Chi?

My understanding is that brands with their home office in China is Chi Fi.

For example, my Ming Da tube amp is purely Chinese since the main office and research is in China.

I could be wrong but what do I know?

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

I'd like to see a definitive list of made-in-America but that site is not it. For example, they list Klipsch. I have a pair of Klipsch speakers and they're made in China. Many of these companies listed design things domestically and have some or most of the products made offshore.

This is the "Assembled in USA" list. Only some of Klipsch's items are assembled in the U.S. So it's inclusion on the list requires that caveat. If you were bored you could probably go through them one by one and make that definitive list as most manufacturers proudly list it on their website. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in a list of audio gear that was definitively Made in U.S.A., Canada, Japan, Australia, U.K., etc.

Another boring activity is reading about what legally constitutes Made in USA: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/12/made-in-the-usa.asp ...most businesses choose to say Assembled in USA as they are getting some parts from overseas and assembling the product in the U.S. They take it pretty seriously over here: Police Raid TARA Labs.

 

[chesebert]

This is the "Assembled in USA" list. Only some of Klipsch's items are assembled in the U.S. So it's inclusion on the list requires that caveat. If you were bored you could probably go through them one by one and make that definitive list as most manufacturers proudly list it on their website. I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in a list of audio gear that was definitively Made in U.S.A., Canada, Japan, Australia, U.K., etc.

Another boring activity is reading about what legally constitutes Made in USA: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/12/made-in-the-usa.asp ...most businesses choose to say Assembled in USA as they are getting some parts from overseas and assembling the product in the U.S. They take it pretty seriously over here: Police Raid TARA Labs.

So, in other words, people were paying thousands for bulk cable made in China? lol...nice..

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

So, in other words, people were paying thousands for bulk cable made in China? lol...nice..

There are extremely more offensive things happening on a daily basis, but this is a politics-free forum

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Would you buy a painting based on the material of the canvas, the paint and the brushes used? Do you even care what materials the artists use? Normally you buy a painting based on the final result and not by the materials used in the process.

Strange comparison, but that is how, at least my feeling, most people in this forum buy their gear.

It seems to me that more and more people do not care if a guitar sound as close to the real life as possible, more and more people seem to only care about measurements and graphs from computers on paper because, when a computer says it sounds better, it does have to, or not?

And thats the thing. The computer can say if one canvas is better than the other, if one paint is better than the other, but a computer can not judge if the art looks better. Also a computer can not judge, if listening to a recording of a solo guitar sounds like the guitar in real life.

I play instruments and i talk to lots of musicians and also record, mix and master music and i have the feeling that musicians buy different gear than most audiophiles because they don't care about measurements on paper but on the capability of reproducing an real life sound. Because they know how music sounds life.

Some headphones (just one example: MDR-Z1R) received some very bad critique for their weird tuning. But i don't understand that critique because the MDR-Z1R makes instruments sound almost exactly like they sound in real life. Just an example, the MDR-Z1R is not the only headphone and/or in-ear that can do that.

But is that not what you want? Do you not want that the guitar sounds as close to the real sound as possible? I don’t understand the majority of the people here. Why are there people who actually prefer the limited and stripped down monitoring version of the guitar? Do you dislike the sound of instruments?

Quite a few people complain that its too bassy and not neutral enough, but guitars, double bass, pianos and so on don't produce an flat, neutral and analytic sound. They are all made of wood and mostly sound warm and bassy. That is how instruments sound.

Why do people listen to a guitar and then complain, that their headphone makes the guitar sound life and real. If you don’t like the sound of guitars, why listen to them?

But i haven't heard a single piece of Chi-Fi that was able to make instruments sound real and I think that is not an coincidence because people like Chi-Fi because its cheap and Chi-Fi sounds flat/neutral/analytic (mostly) because its easy and cheap to tune an IEM like that. You just need a measurement rig and off-the-shelve components and there goes your 600$ flagship Chi-Fi IEM.

Because I am also a very technical person (which is why I work in IT) I also sometimes fell for this and buy after looking at a graph or due to technical specs of a product. And I always fall on my nose doing so.

Why do people wear make up? Is it because they hate the natural way they look? The MDR-Z1R is the worst headphone I have ever heard over $1000. You couldn't pay me to take it. And, I am a former jazz musician. There are many ways for art to be pleasant. A very very small percentage of art is a direct copy of real life. There is even a form of art that is nothing like real life and it's fascinating because it reminds us of something real or evokes emotions. You like and work with reference sound. Good for you. Like art, people enjoy their music in different ways.

 

[Redcarmoose]

What fascinates me is still the subjectivity in this hobby. Where after all these years still it’s incredibly subjective. Take milk for example if it was spoiled then it would be a no go, and everyone can relate that it isn’t good for consumption. Unarguably! Though there may be a small percentage of folks who don’t mind a tiny off taste due to age. But most rebel against such things, and would not agree with any acceptable level of consumption at any level.

Yet then there was a cheese, you know old milk. And with-in the acceptance of such products there seems to be diversity in acceptance. Where a few cheeses are acceptable by all eaters, yet then there are the blue-cheese and others which due to their personality challenges the senses. Some go there, some don’t. And the people who don’t understand simply don’t understand, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Mark200]

I'd like to see a definitive list of made-in-America but that site is not it. For example, they list Klipsch. I have a pair of Klipsch speakers and they're made in China. Many of these companies listed design things domestically and have some or most of the products made offshore.

I suspect that a fair number of those on the list do final assembly (or cable termination) in the US, but many of the parts are made in China, especially speaker cabinets and cables (un-terminated raw cable). That might also include some speaker drivers in certain cases.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I suspect that a fair number of those on the list do final assembly (or cable termination) in the US, but many of the parts are made in China, especially speaker cabinets and cables (un-terminated raw cable). That might also include some speaker drivers in certain cases.

That might be true but it seems that many of them OEM Chinese products. My Klipschs are made in China, no attempt by the company to cover it up or suggest otherwise. Of course they do have all their top line products made 100% in America. Just that all the non premium stuff is not.

 

[bagwell359]

First of all, there are two kinds of audiophiles:

• Those who primarily look at measurements/graphs.
• Those who claim to hear meaningful differences between two well-made cables (speaker level, line level, and even power cords).

Wow that's limiting.

It is not an either/or. Designers need to approach things with engineering know-how, as well prior experience, and the subjective - since hearing is subjective. Although like wine tasting it can be educated.

Consumers are all over the map. Some are plug and play, some like metal, some like classical, some tinker, some only feel good when they have the latest and most expensive.

I know what I like, and I have enough technical skill to bend some transducers and electronics to my taste. For me the notion of either objective or subjective only is - provably false, and utterly ridiculous. Ying and Yang. Belichick AND Brady, and so on.

If an objective person had all the measurements available on a chain of equipment, and chose the one with the best stats - but didn't like the sound, they would keep it, because while it isn't pleasing, they don't want to go against their stand on the matter?

Pure subjective types can go off the rails in so many ways, I won't bother to list any.

If it's a serious hobby/interest, then one ought to plunge in with both feet on both sides. Adherence to one hierarchically over the other might make it easier to navigate the hobby, but I doubt it ends up with the best results over time.