[RonaldDumsfeld]

As requested. To return to the OP issue.
 
 
Quote:

Why is SPDIF better than USB?

 
The amount of confusion over this simple issue makes me suspect I might be missing something. In which case I would be more than happy to be set straight.  Thanks. That said.......
 
It isn't. S/PDIF 'better' than USB that is. It all depends on context.
 
The audio we are interested in is PCM data. It might have come from a internal optical drive, an external drive, your hard disk, a flash drive of some kind, it may have been streamed via the internal or a local network. It could be in several bit rates. As .WAV, MP3, Ogg Vorbis, AAC, FLAC - whatever. These can best be imagined as 'containers' of data which is always in the same internal format. PCM samples. These will of necessity have been discontinuous at some point. They need to be re-sequenced and read by the DAC as accurately as physically possible. 
 
So in general:-
 
If you own an audiophile grade DAC then some variant of S/PDIF could make sense. Use the clock on your mobo or a gadget like the Hiface if you prefer. This is because accurate re-clocking requires specialised software.  Writing code isn't a strong suite for audiophile manufacturers. Particularly the high end 'boutique' guys. In addition chips that don't require software are cheaper.
 
If you own a semi pro grade audio interface then USB 2.0 or Firewire is best. These guys have to write their own software anyway for latency reasons. Therefore it also makes sense for them to use the better quality DAC/clocks chips. 
 
If money is no object then it might make sense to buy the best quality external clock you can afford and sync everything in your system to that. In effect this means data transfer via Firewire/USB 2.0 as timing data is also incorporated in S/PDIF.
 
That said I am in the happy position of being able to easily compare all aforementioned methods. Using an audio interface that accepts data input via Firewire or USB 2.0 (clock source set to Internal),  via  a variety of S/PDIF containers (clock source set to External) or using in effect a high quality separate clock (clock source set to SMTPE). I know a number of you will express incredulity at this claim but any differences in sound quality, if they exist at all, are below my ability to detect. The quality of the original sample is  by far the most important consideration. It's the old, old audiophile adage at work. 
 
tl;dr?
 
Audiophile DAC? - S/PDIF might work for you.
 
Semi Pro audio interface? - USB 2.0 or Firewire. Every time.
 
Pro audio interface or stinking rich? - USB 2.0 or 3.0, Firewire 800 + high quality separate clock.
 

 

[kenny001]

do not need to apologize, my friend, it is a good topic for us. thank you very much.

 

[kenny001]

i know more about the USB, but i do not know the SPDIF. i have no idea for it. so most i can not totally understand your meaning, but  still thank you very much. i like your post, too.

 

[regal]

Quote:

.
 
Pro audio interface or stinking rich? - USB 2.0 or 3.0, Firewire 800 + high quality separate clock.
 

Surprised,  the seprate clocks like the Big-ben and the like have to be trasmitted,  PLL'ed, dived down/up,  in the end I am surprised you find the setup better than a local clock mastering the firewire output.
 

 

[RonaldDumsfeld]

You make one good point regal but, with respect, appear to have missed the central thrust of the argument.
 
External SMPTE clocks can be used not so much for their effect on final signal quality but to sync together several devices, instruments and effects. This is a high end application often in a pressured environment (*1). The equipment needs to be rugged, reliable, versatile, portable and immune to interference from nearby equipment. That makes it expensive but since the users of this gear know their reputation depends on it they are willing to cough up.
 
So. Using gear like that in a domestic setting doesn't prove your have a particularly discerning ear or exquisite taste in electronic furniture. All it proves is that you are 'stinking rich'. I was being facetious.
 
To reiterate the central point and maybe act as a tl;dr for the entire thread.
 
At one time audiophile early adopters with access to earlier generation DAC devices may have seen advantages in prefering S/PDIF over USB. If this were ever truly the case then it certainly is not the case any more.
 
Anyone tempted to enter the market today would be stark, staring bonkers not to put a USB 2.0 device top of their shopping list. From the Focusrite sapphire 6 @ ~$150 up to the RME Fireface UC @ ~$1000 they are at least half the price of dedicated audiophile equivalents and come with features you might not realise you want at first but once you discover how useful they are you will never want to be without again.

 

[grokit]

*bump* well I guess I am stark raving bonkers. I am looking for a simple high quality firewire to spdif converter and it seems like they don't exist. There are the pro audio versions that feature multiple in/outs, MIDI, phantom power etc. that I don't want/won't use, and there is the Weiss that is super expensive and not even available in North America. Also, I would like to achieve 192kHz and prefer to do it without a software driver.
 
I am using PureMusic with an external USB drive for my music library, and the guide advises:
 
 
"Don’t share audio device and storage buses: With a FireWire audio device, use USB2, SATA or a NAS for audio storage With a USB audio device, use FireWire, SATA or a NAS for audio storage"

 

[Adda]

Quote:

*bump* well I guess I am stark raving bonkers. I am looking for a simple high quality firewire to spdif converter and it seems like they don't exist. There are the pro audio versions that feature multiple in/outs, MIDI, phantom power etc. that I don't want/won't use, and there is the Weiss that is super expensive and not even available in North America. Also, I would like to achieve 192kHz and prefer to do it without a software driver.
 
I am using PureMusic with an external USB drive for my music library, and the guide advises:
 
 
"Don’t share audio device and storage buses: With a FireWire audio device, use USB2, SATA or a NAS for audio storage With a USB audio device, use FireWire, SATA or a NAS for audio storage"

What about the Echo AudioFire 2?
It has a mini-din connector for a dongle with S/PDIF and midi in/outs, but a special mini-din to RCA/BNC cable can be made, or you can replace the mini-din connector in the AudioFire with RCA/BNC.
I have replaced the mini-din with a BNC connector, there are pics in my profile.
It's only 24/96 though, require a high quality firewire interface, preferably a Ti one, they require a driver on Windows and may need a bit of tinkering to get to work flawlessly.

 

[grokit]

Yeah I was looking at that one, it has the audio in/outs that I don't need and as you said only goes up to 96k, but it seems like it would be pretty good on a Mac. A straight converter with 192k and perhaps an optical out as well would be ideal.

 

[Adda]

It's not perfect no, the perfect solution to me would be a simple firewire to S/PDIF in/out converter with no analogue circuitry at all, preferably with at least two outputs, one input and 24/192 support.
But no such device exists as far as I know, the closest to that I have found is the AudioFire 2, it's a damn good transport, clearer and more focused sounding then the integrated USB of both LD DAC_I and Atoll DAC 100.
 

 

[Happy Camper]

A usb receiver in the DACs input architecture could convert once to I2S.

 

[middachten]

Quote:

Yeah I was looking at that one, it has the audio in/outs that I don't need and as you said only goes up to 96k, but it seems like it would be pretty good on a Mac. A straight converter with 192k and perhaps an optical out as well would be ideal.

I'm getting very good results with my TC-Konnekt D24 on both Windows and Mac. It delivers all of this (SPDIF, Optical and 192k) I also use this interface for music production/recording. But on my NFB-2 (trough SDIF) it gave the best result of all sources (CD, Squeezebox Touch, USB). See my test on the NFB-2.
 
TC (and many other manufacturers) had some problems in the past in getting the FW interface to perform stable. I don't have any issues, since some driver releases 2-3 years ago, on my two windows machines and my Macbook.
 

 

[leeperry]

-coz S/PDIF is galvanically isolated by design, both coax and toslink
-coz there's no magic "all in one" USB chip that does it all, hence the requirement to use USB>coax middle men.

 

[grokit]

We were discussing the lack of audiohile-quality, simple firewire to spdif converters, that go up to 192k and don't have a bunch of unnecessary analog i/o's (for those of us that don't need them). Pure Music recommends a firewire drive for isolating the transport from the dac, I was just wondering about going the other way with a usb drive.

 

[KingStyles]

I was originally looking for a firewire/spdif converter. Not much to choose from. I ended up getting a usb/spdifconverter. the couple of people I have talked to one manufacture that said that a firewire/spdif converter wouldnt have any advantages over an properly implemented usb/spdif converter. That might be 1 reason that we havent seen more firewire converters on the market other than pro units since they are the ones that tend to use firewire more than usb.

 

[grokit]

I would guess the Apogee Duet is as good as the pro audio firewire stuff gets without spending real big bucks, too bad it only goes up to 96k and the Duet 2 which is usb replaced it.
 
Nevermind, I don't think the Duet even has an spdif out.