[LaughMoreDaily]

I agree with you, the somewhat young "Chi-Fi" offering available worldwide re-rolled the dices and the outcome is/was sometimes a hit or miss. Do you think that the US/European and Japan offering is that much better, even in the bang-for-bucks ratio scheme of things? You seem to like your Sonys quite a lot and good so, but there also are a lot of overpriced IEMs, Headphone or Desktop devices designed, produced and sold in the western world. I can start with the US, where snake-oil is sold like Kebab.

I don't know much about Japan's iems, other than Sony and Pioneer. I would only recommend Sony (they perfect their earphones).

In terms of US iems I've bought and tried, Marley, Skull Candy, Wicked Audio (went in the garbage 60 seconds later) and I'm not sure who else. Marley was the best in SQ but with no isolation on the iem I bought. Skull Candy doesn't supply large eartips and that's a serious fail. The sound quality on SC is also much much better than many metallic-sounding KZ's and TRN's. However, I would only recommend Sony but I would recommend Skull Candy or Marley over KZ/TRN.

 

[LaughMoreDaily]

Combine all that with the fact that it's a very niche hobby so advertising often follows the "influencer" model and it makes it hard sometimes to actually find objective information. Leaving everyone to form their own opinions.

And nobody wants to feel like they wasted their money and especially not to have others tell them they wasted their money.

These types of threads always seem to fall into the category of having something to prove and people who don't want to be told that their hobby is a waste of time or money.

I'm not sure about you, but I would have loved someone to tell me about KZ and TRN's metallic sound and perhaps low quality emphasis compared to Sony, etc that I know of now. I would have preferred someone to tell me that Audio Budget reviews are slightly white washed, cause even though I read them, I understand that possibly now. Every reviews is good but they all seem the same and he doesn't go too deep into being critical.

I've wasted at least $1,000 on Chifi earbuds, daps and earphones, I would have preferred if one of you tried to tell me to other wise not do that. But I probably had to learn on my own... the hard way, but why do we all have to do that? Why not help each other save money?

 

[silent-circuit]

OP bought mid-range headphones from outside their region of the world. Almost all companies have different models for different regions. They may all be "the same thing" at the end of the day, but they use different distribution channels, retailers are changed at different rates, etc.

OP, you seem pretty well informed; I imagine you knew full well when you bought the other model you'd have no warranty. Shouldn't have been at all surprised when you were refused service. This would have been the case with almost any major manufacturer, it's by no means an issue specific to B&W.

Now, that said? I totally agree they shouldn't have failed in two months. I also think they should have made an exception in this case... But again, most manufacturers wouldn't. Including Sony, in my experience.

In the end, "my out of region, gray market headphones broke and B&W refused me warranty service so high end headphones are all a scam" is a really strange take, and not really justifiable.

To be clear I have no affiliation with B&W or any other audio company.

 

[originalsnuffy]

As long as the reviewer is clear that a product was provided at no charge, I think its OK to write the review. I know there are rules here about re-selling review items. At one time some cool Head-Fi people (I miss you Uncle Nick) were nice enough to loan out IEMs after they did their reviews. And more companies ran tours.

I don't write many reviews. Partially because I have no real idea what slam or sparkle are supposed to mean. If something slams or sparkles it means, to me, that the units are probably v-shaped which is not what I am looking for. And I am unlikely to talk about Pinna. That just looks like ears to me.

Full disclosure: I did write one review where the product was provided at no charge. It wasn't something I was really seeking out, but I thought other people here might be interested so I accepted the review. It was a specialty hardware item. The unit was fine for its purpose and I did note that it was a free review sample (value $50). I have also encouraged a particular vendor I like to provide review samples -- to some other Head-Fi types that I respect. Didn't ask for one for myself.

 

[zenki]

@LaughMoreDaily Skull candy actually good? Heard ppl say they are but thought that was a joke.
For the metallic sound, there's just no way ppl gonna tell you about the metallic sound/low quality because you don't have their
interests or the other way around (Gotta dig deep for those secrets).
But really a $300 earphone and the grill come off after a while is just a no go. Can totally understand if it's like ~$25 CCA (one side went ded and got replaced, the other one the grill came off)
But yes learning the hard way is probably the best way, just like playing with fire.

 

[originalsnuffy]

Now that hurts.

Of course I'm worth it. You can learn alot from me about how to have a good "argument".

Ah. Now we are at the Monty Python argument clinic

I came here for an argument not simple contradiction

 

[Currawong]

Skull candy actually good? Heard ppl say they are but thought that was a joke.

Quite a few years ago, Skullcandy began employing talented acoustic engineers to tune their headphones and IEMs, and they made some pretty decent stuff. I have no idea now.

Some thoughts:

One thing that I think is forgotten is that most companies out there want to make good products, and work hard on doing so. With few exceptions, most gear out there is going to be at least decent, and not have any major faults. That being said, I have encountered a couple of products priced way over their sonic value, but it's very few relative to the vast increase in sound quality available at any price compared to, say, 10 years ago. For example, when I started back in 2007, $200 IEMs were rubbish. Harsh treble, out-of-phase with horrid percussion reproduction and a total waste of money. Compare that to now, and you can get $50 IEMs that sound great (if not very detailed).

Another thing to consider is finding products that synergise with your tastes. I think that is where it is very hard to write a review that provides a clear impression of whether a product will suit someone or not. That goes both for headphones and IEMs, as well as amps, DACs and DAPs, the latter of which can be tuned to be a bit warm and/or euphonic, or "by the numbers" with good measurements first. Often, even if individual components are imperfect in some way, when you get a good combination of those components, it can be fantastic.

I understand that a lot of people are out there seeking something to make them feel good though, through listening to music, and get caught up in that -- especially the feeling of new stuff arriving. I've observed this enough though that if you watch the threads of new products, apart from a regular hardcore group of Head-Fi'ers who go through many products (with many of them having become reviewers to feed their habit for free), there will always be new members for each product taking an interest in the product as something they are interested in buying.

It actually works against companies if they either a: produce stuff that is bad or over-priced, or encourage shilling, because they will be found out, one way or another. It's actually in their interest to find reviewers who can give accurate impressions of products, showing the good and bad factors, so that potential customers can decide if it is for them or not. Unhappy customers are FAR more likely (statistically -- there is research behind this) to complain and tell others than happy customers.

Thinking back to the title of this thread, it can be easy to find good listening enjoyment with cheap gear, especially now. I have a saying: Comparisons are evil. It's when you start reading many threads, buying gear and comparing it with what you have that it ruins your enjoyment. Heck, I've been to the Tokyo headphone festivals and made the mistake of listening to a top system early on, ruining my ability to appreciate other gear for the rest of the two days.

 

[IEMusic]

It actually works against companies if they either a: produce stuff that is bad or over-priced, or encourage shilling, because they will be found out, one way or another.

I agree with almost everything you said, and I don’t fully disagree with this part, it’s just that unfortunately, there are certain companies that have gotten so big, and so influential (advertising, etc.), that they can pull certain stunts with impunity, asking for outright shilling in exchange for a free prize. Even when found out, nothing comes of it. However, in those situations, at least it’s more obvious to us consumers, so we can decide for ourselves it we want to purchase products for such companies.

 

[LaughMoreDaily]

@LaughMoreDaily Skull candy actually good? Heard ppl say they are but thought that was a joke.

I don't recommend SC. I have two of their iems and Sony beats them hands down. Plus Sony supplies large eartips, Skull Candy doesn't. Skull Candy has not been able to match Sony in iem budget quality yet, in my opinion. Buy a pair of SC and compare for yourself and see (or not) what I'm saying.

With that being said, I just bought a pair of Sony headphones today, not iems and so far they beat most if not all of the Chifi I have bought. We'll see after burn in, right now, they sound a bit high pitched but that should come down to normal.

 

[feverfive]

With that being said, I just bought a pair of Sony headphones today, not iems and so far they beat most if not all of the Chifi I have bought. We'll see after burn in, right now, they sound a bit high pitched but that should come down to normal.

Out of curiosity, full size cans? I ended up very unexpectedly buying ATH-WP900 cans a month ago. I came back to head-fi recently, was overwhelmed with all the Chi-Fi, and frankly, didn't feel great about spending >$700 on any of the IEMs that have been hyped. Sooo, I went to a place I thought I was done with: headphones, but back to a company I know and trust. Very very happy with my decision, but I'm still sticking around to learn as much as I can about some of these companies because I can still see myself buying a sub-$1,000 pair of IEMs within the next 9 months or so.

 

[skyeosgp]

OP bought mid-range headphones from outside their region of the world. Almost all companies have different models for different regions. They may all be "the same thing" at the end of the day, but they use different distribution channels, retailers are changed at different rates, etc.

OP, you seem pretty well informed; I imagine you knew full well when you bought the other model you'd have no warranty. Shouldn't have been at all surprised when you were refused service. This would have been the case with almost any major manufacturer, it's by no means an issue specific to B&W.

Now, that said? I totally agree they shouldn't have failed in two months. I also think they should have made an exception in this case... But again, most manufacturers wouldn't. Including Sony, in my experience.

In the end, "my out of region, gray market headphones broke and B&W refused me warranty service so high end headphones are all a scam" is a really strange take, and not really justifiable.

To be clear I have no affiliation with B&W or any other audio company.

If I read the Sennheiser warranty statement correctly, I believe they have international warranty for their products.
Some laptops' warranty work this way too when the vendors realised people buys laptops to be portable.
This is useful especially for folks that are posted overseas long-term, working overseas or simply purchase an item while on holiday.

 

[silent-circuit]

If I read the Sennheiser warranty statement correctly, I believe they have international warranty for their products.
Some laptops' warranty work this way too when the vendors realised people buys laptops to be portable.
This is useful especially for folks that are posted overseas long-term, working overseas or simply purchase an item while on holiday.

Yes, there are exceptions, and I agree that international warranties should be the norm, but then number of phones and other electronics available through Amazon, Ebay and the like clearly marked "INTERNATIONAL VERSION, No US Warranty" and similar make it pretty clear this is common practice (and logically, the US version wouldn't have international warranty). My point in bringing it up was that the OP very likely bought the foreign model because it was cheaper even after shipping / import duties than the local one would have been, and if you've gone that far to save the money I'd say it's reasonable to think you'd know you had no warranty.

I am saying this was done willingly, knowingly, and it backfired... which is unfortunate, but part of the risk taken. Making a thread bashing high end headphones as a result makes no sense.

I am /not/ saying that it is unreasonable to expect a product from a reputable brand to last, or that the status quo is acceptable when it comes to warranty service.

Taking issue with policy is reasonable. Saying 'everything high end is just junk' is not.

 

[skyeosgp]

Yes, there are exceptions, and I agree that international warranties should be the norm, but then number of phones and other electronics available through Amazon, Ebay and the like clearly marked "INTERNATIONAL VERSION, No US Warranty" and similar make it pretty clear this is common practice (and logically, the US version wouldn't have international warranty). My point in bringing it up was that the OP very likely bought the foreign model because it was cheaper even after shipping / import duties than the local one would have been, and if you've gone that far to save the money I'd say it's reasonable to think you'd know you had no warranty.

I am saying this was done willingly, knowingly, and it backfired... which is unfortunate, but part of the risk taken. Making a thread bashing high end headphones as a result makes no sense.

I am /not/ saying that it is unreasonable to expect a product from a reputable brand to last, or that the status quo is acceptable when it comes to warranty service.

Taking issue with policy is reasonable. Saying 'everything high end is just junk' is not.

Understand where you are coming from. Just like we buy those ear buds from China for the heck of trying them out, no warranty whatsoever, though the price point is much much lower.

I can only guess that OP was more upset with the fact that the components in the high end stuff are just like any other components bought off the web, and doesn't justify the price of the headset. With OP's hindsight, now we know what goes into the B&W headsets

 

[Wyville]

As long as the reviewer is clear that a product was provided at no charge, I think its OK to write the review. I know there are rules here about re-selling review items. At one time some cool Head-Fi people (I miss you Uncle Nick) were nice enough to loan out IEMs after they did their reviews. And more companies ran tours.

Review samples are a necessity for most reviewers because people keep asking questions and want comparisons that mean the reviewer needs access to those IEMs/headphones/DAPs/etc they review. Re-selling is a big no-no and I have no respect for reviewers who review just so they can earn money from selling the review samples. Luckily more and more manufacturers take measures to prevent that (e.g. registering serial numbers, engraving "demo" or even the reviewer's name, etc). I get quite a few review samples and I try my best to use them as intended by answering questions where I can, doing comparisons and sending units around to people I trust enough not to run off with them. I have no issues posting intercontinental and I happily offer my review units for a tour when I can do that safely. I know not everyone is like that, but I hope it at least shows that not every reviewer is a shill or out to earn a quick buck.

 

[SpaceOperaVillain]

So much of headphone gear variation comes down to tweaks in the cross-overs, quality of internal wiring, cabling, and soldering. If you've spent any time modding KOSS or Grado then you learn quickly how much of a big difference in your perception of sound changes with small tweaks. It's for this reason that I prefer flat / neutral phones and then EQ the crap out of them for whatever genre. I think Sony MDR-7506s have lived on my head more than anything else for this reason. Recessed mids bum me out, so I don't like V-shaped cans much. But that's just me.

Part of why this is a fun hobby is because it is so subjective, and collecting multiple pairs of 'phones for different occasions is really a better strategy than spending several thousand dollars on the promise of a do-everything headset. With "mid" price phones increasing to astronomical prices from the well known brands, I think ChiFi is popular because it's made the headphone hobby accessible again. Does a set of modded porta-pros sound as good as Sennheiser HD800's? IMO, it totally *depends*!! Source material matters. I think if there are a handful of recordings that you start to worship (Miles Davis' Bitches Brew, for example) then you start looking for a setup that will give it the most justice ... not what brand/type/style is supposedly "the best" for a given genre. That kind of infinite variation is why this is such a fun game. Some people have a bad drinking problem or are addicted to the craps tables. Be happy and buy all that you can.

I agree with some of the sentiment that it feels like reviews are all 4-5 stars now on head-fi, but the comments and perception of the reviewer are infinitely more valuable, anyway. Knowing what the reviewer typically prefers helps to sort out the weight you give to their review.