[Hammerburst]

Brand-names? Small/boutique companies are the worst. They pump out new products every 6 months with no real improvements and charge an arm and a leg for something that costs very little to make (compared to what they charge). The news gets out to the forums, then the undeserved hype begins. An unfortunate revolving cycle and a side-effect of a small enthusiast based community. So easy to fool the crowd with sponsored reviews and nonsense marketing. In particular, the flagship market is so jacked up.

100%. Small/boutique companies are sketchy to me. Many of them are basically con-artists, out for your money. They deliver style, with little substance behind it. Marketing hype pictures, and reviews written by shills. I wish we had more stores, that allow us to physically preview headphones, before buying them, (like stores in Asia). My collection is all older than ~2014, and wired, with the 3.5mm jack. If I find a good headphone or iem, I will stick to it. If it breaks or gets lost, I will buy a New Old Stock replacement, or used model, on Ebay or something. I also gravitate toward the bigger, older companies, (JVC, Audio Technica, Sony, etc).

 

[kdphan]

So which boutique companies are con artists, to be exact?

 

[IEMusic]

So which boutique companies are con artists, to be exact?

That’s exactly what I’m wondering.

 

[Infoseeker]

Just like CPUs, there are different quality bins. Plus there is quality control and driver matching too.

It just takes more money for quality control. The price of the materials of a 30 dollar inducer is not as important. What important is the effort to double-check and triple-check every step of the way.

 

[Hammerburst]

So which boutique companies are con artists, to be exact?

I listened to a pair of Unique Melody 3DD-TI, with "new improved titanium drivers", lol. They had a retail price of $1100...and sounded bad. Here, the OP tells us a good story about Bowers and Wilkinson. Overpriced B&W P5's, that failed after 2 months. They had sketchy soldering inside, and mediocre design. There it is. This stuff doesn't surprise me, and there is much more, where that came from. People should be talking about BS like this, and exposing these ripoffs. People who know about the shoddiness of these products, yet deny the problem, must have ulterior motives.

 

[kdphan]

I listened to a pair of Unique Melody 3DD-TI, with "new improved titanium drivers", lol. They had a retail price of $1100...and sounded bad. Here, the OP tells us a good story about Bowers and Wilkinson. Overpriced B&W P5's, that failed after 2 months. They had sketchy soldering inside, and mediocre design. There it is. This stuff doesn't surprise me, and there is much more, where that came from. People should be talking about BS like this, and exposing these ripoffs. People who know about the shoddiness of these products, yet deny the problem, must have ulterior motives.

You haven’t really told the full story here.
What source did you listen to the unique melody from? There are many variables with how an iem can sound. Source, tips, and whether or not you had a good seal and so on that can affect how it sounds in your ear.
The BW P5 aren’t considered high end by any means.

Of all the IEMs I’ve owned from $150 to $3K from probably over 10 boutique companies, none haven’t really sounded terrible. Some I don’t like, and it’s more of a preference thing.

 

[KutuzovGambit]

I've heard good over-ear cans from the big names, but Chi-Fi has been my only real experience with IEMS (other than a few AKG models). Is there such a thing as a plethora of great Chi-Fi over-ears that beat the big names, or is this phenomenon more prevalent in IEMs?

 

[Hammerburst]

You haven’t really told the full story here.
What source did you listen to the unique melody from? There are many variables with how an iem can sound. Source, tips, and whether or not you had a good seal and so on that can affect how it sounds in your ear.
The BW P5 aren’t considered high end by any means.

Of all the IEMs I’ve owned from $150 to $3K from probably over 10 boutique companies, none haven’t really sounded terrible. Some I don’t like, and it’s more of a preference thing.

Sound quality is one issue here, but there is also: Build Quality, and Company Support for the customer. Drivers shouldn't be failing after a couple months. The design and soldering of the product, shouldn't look like a $15 headphone, you can buy at Walmart. At the end of the day, $150 is a good amount of money. You can buy some great headphones with that amount of money, (new and used). The company should support the customer, if something like that happens. B&W left the OP in the dust, "Not our problem, deal with it", was their stance. This sounds like a scam to me. Stories like this happen everyday. These companies need to be held accountable. They take people's hard-earned money, and don't help, if something goes wrong.

They should spend more money on R&D, and Quality Control. Instead of flashy marketing schemes, and paying shills to write fake reviews. But that would cost more, require more time, manpower, etc. As they say about Italian cars, "Style over substance" lol.

 

[martinm0]

That’s exactly what I’m wondering.

+1

 

[alvinlim2010]

I recall the good o days at Jaben when it is crammed and they are the pioneers bringing in audio gear from China that no one would bother. I would say back 10 years ago, Chi-fi is not really a thing. The typical Shures and Westone (and of course mainstays like Sony) are the muscle of the industry. But soon you get disrupters to the game, pushing the bang-for-buck. It is kind of similar to watches too. You have the fashion brands like Daniel Wellington, v.s. your B&O and other niche brands out to sell the 'lifestyle' and fashion (I give Beats some credit because despite crappy quality - at least at the beginning - they help to push the demand and create greater awareness about audio in general).

 

[robstah]

Coming from.the car scene with manufacturing background (machinist), there are multiple types of people/businesses that fall under catagories.

1. True tuners: This group covers people who have an obsession. They spend day and night getting their product to the closest of perfection. Some may lose their minds in the process. On product release, these are the folks that hound manufacturing into tighter than average tolerances and push their obsessive perfection ideology on others (I get to work with these folks and they are frustrating, no doubt).
2. Tooners: The tinkerers out there. They give risk the middle finger and don't mind things blowing up in their faces. While their attention to detail isn't with the tuners, every blue moon they get lucky and normally in a spectacular way. I consider a lot of Chi-fi floating in this group.
3. Industry heavy trend setters: This group built a name reputation, whether on a good product in the past or a massive budget in marketing. I'm not going to name names, but you know these folks quite well. They have borderline unlimited budgets for research and development but purposely dial back their products to allow for incremental improvements in the future.
4. The scam artists: The worst of all group, the ones that purposely go in to a field only to screw it all up and bring trust down them with. These folks are solely in it for themselves and seek money and or power. All industries get a taste of these losers.

With all that said, there are winners and losers out there and price rarely defines them.

 

[mashuto]

Sound quality is one issue here, but there is also: Build Quality, and Company Support for the customer. Drivers shouldn't be failing after a couple months. The design and soldering of the product, shouldn't look like a $15 headphone, you can buy at Walmart. At the end of the day, $150 is a good amount of money. You can buy some great headphones with that amount of money, (new and used). The company should support the customer, if something like that happens. B&W left the OP in the dust, "Not our problem, deal with it", was their stance. This sounds like a scam to me. Stories like this happen everyday. These companies need to be held accountable. They take people's hard-earned money, and don't help, if something goes wrong.

They should spend more money on R&D, and Quality Control. Instead of flashy marketing schemes, and paying shills to write fake reviews. But that would cost more, require more time, manpower, etc. As they say about Italian cars, "Style over substance" lol.

The issue is that you an OP seem to be making the claim that all boutique and high end audio companies are scams unless they are bigger names like Sony.

And the argument you guys seem to be making is that the products are overpriced, bad quality, and don't sound good, and that anyone who disagrees and says these products are good and worth it is a shill.

You are basing this off a few reports of poor quality and bad customer support. While ignoring that many people have had good customer support and do think the products are good and worth it, and that obviously not everyone is a shill. It also ignores that yea boutique companies are expensive, partly because they are small boutique companies and they have to price things higher than a company that already has massive resources behind it.

At the end of the day though it comes down to preference. If it's not worth it for you or anyone else to buy high end audio, that's fine. I very freely admit that a lot of stuff is overpriced and any benefits gained from that extra cost are often small. So it really comes down to each person to make the determination themselves as to what is worth it. I absolutely know most people would be quite happy with a 50 dollar iem and have no need to spend 2000.

And there are certain things that absolutely fall into the snake oil category, but I just don't buy the argument that the whole high end industry is a scam as you guys seem to be implying.

 

[Hammerburst]

The issue is that you an OP seem to be making the claim that all boutique and high end audio companies are scams unless they are bigger names like Sony.

Interesting, you are twisting my words. Read my statement again, "Many" small/boutique companies are basically con-artists. Ok, my statement may have been exaggerated, but when you start saying "all", you are putting me in the category, of speaking in absolutes. "Only a sith deals in absolutes". You seem to use absolutes, as an ad-hominem tactic, to "win" an argument.

And the argument you guys seem to be making is that the products are overpriced, bad quality, and don't sound good, and that anyone who disagrees and says these products are good and worth it is a shill.

More of the same. Clearly, I did not take my argument to that level, "anyone who disagrees"? Where did that come from? Do you have an agenda here?

You are basing this off a few reports of poor quality and bad customer support. While ignoring that many people have had good customer support and do think the products are good and worth it, and that obviously not everyone is a shill. It also ignores that yea boutique companies are expensive, partly because they are small boutique companies and they have to price things higher than a company that already has massive resources behind it.

Of course there are excellent sounding iem's, that come from boutique companies. They can also be durable, with good design, build quality, quality control, tight manufacturing process, etc. Yet, as mentioned, many of these companies do not expend the necessary resources, for good build quality, and quality control. Nor do they have the experience, to create a great sounding iem, compared to large established companies, with teams of engineers, who have designed headphones for 40+ years. I am not basing this off of "a few" cases, this information is all over the internet. Are you saying that a majority of the ratio, of released models, that are problematic iem's, come from established companies, like Sony, Audio Technica, etc? I disagree.

Individuals who are basically con-artists, do exist in the industry. Some of them started out with selfish, greedy intentions, from the beginning. However, many of them started out with a bright, creative dream, of designing superb products. They started out with good intentions, but the dream is not the same as reality, and these boutique companies decide to cut corners, in order to release a product to the market, hurting the customers.

 

[mrconfuse]

At some point diminishing returns must kick in. And from what I can tell most companies buy ba's from Knowles or have them tune it in a particular way. So I wonder how much "research" these companies are actually doing.

 

[mashuto]

Interesting, you are twisting my words. Read my statement again, "Many" small/boutique companies are basically con-artists. Ok, my statement may have been exaggerated, but when you start saying "all", you are putting me in the category, of speaking in absolutes. "Only a sith deals in absolutes". You seem to use absolutes, as an ad-hominem tactic, to "win" an argument.

I just disagree that many of these companies are sketchy. Also, ad-hominem? I never said anything about you personally or attacked you in the slightest. You said small companies are sketchy to you. That seems like you meant all. Again really not sure how you twisted it into thinking that was a personal attack.

Anyways I dont wanna do this. So, Im not going to respond further.