[Lenni]

 
Quote:

The superiority of AXO's is undoubted - so why is'nt the market dominated by integrated amps with built in AXO's or make it easy to insert the AXO after the pre-amp section - the inertia effect aka 'we've always done it this way and we don't want to change'.

oh come on, it's got to do more than just inertia. I know nothing about how to built speakers, but for what I understand the inside speaker's design is a big factor on how it'll ultimately sound. putting an amp inside has to have some implications. also the built-in amp has to have some limitations; even though might be good enough, but can it be as good as a pair of monoblocks?  just wondering...
 
 

Let me see, active monitors or a pair of Sonus Fabers, Harbeths or Spendors paired with a really good tube amp.  Tough choice...

! 

lol! x2

 

[MorbidToaster]

Let me see, active monitors or a pair of Sonus Fabers, Harbeths or Spendors paired with a really good tube amp.  Tough choice...

Harbeth makes an active version of the 40. Just sayin

 

[Mauricio]

Quote:

 also the built-in amp has to have some limitations; even though might be good enough, but can it be as good as a pair of monoblocks? 

Apparently you still have not understood the concept behind passive and active.  In a passive system, you have to use overbuilt, over-engineered mooblocks.  In an active system, this primitive, brutish approache to amplification is eliminated.  You are comparing apples and oranges.
 
You also fail to address the limitations of even monoblocks and passive system amplification.  On the balance, the limitations/disadvantages are greater for passive than active.

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

In a passive system, you have to use overbuilt, over-engineered mooblocks.  In an active system, this primitive, brutish approache to amplification is eliminated.  

 

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

Harbeth makes an active version of the 40. Just sayin

It's been around for years and I know it is an excellent speaker -- quite popular for mixing and editing yet still very true to the breed for music lovers.  But there just isn't much system flexibility there, and its internal amp will never have that beautiful glow in the dark. 

 

[MorbidToaster]

I know I know. I like Monoblocks, too.
 
Quote:

It's been around for years and I know it is an excellent speaker -- quite popular for mixing and editing yet still very true to the breed for music lovers.  But there just isn't much system flexibility there, and its internal amp will never have that beautiful glow in the dark. 

 
 

 

[Mauricio]

Quote:

 

Yes, it is quite risible that a person will invest thousands to get the fanciest DAC to get a pristine signal, and then that signal is passed through a Neanderthal array of inductors, risistors and capacitors that stymie and bedevil their precious monoblocks at every turn!  Imagine Porsche offering a state of the art vehicle, but it couples with a carburated, 1970s muscle-car engine.  Passive systems live in a world of technological schizophrenia.
 

 

[liamstrain]

Mauricio - what, exactly do you think the amplifier circuit inside an active speaker is, if not an array of inductors, resistors, capacitors, etc... it's not as though opamps and IC's play no role at all in any modern amplification system. There is nothing unique to an active speaker that cripples an passive system. One can make a very good argument the other direction, in fact - if one needed to (regarding more space between power transformers and amplifier circuitry leading to less noise, and more room for bigger heat sinks, etc. etc.) 
 
I think you are making assumptions and assertions that frankly, are not supported. 

 

[Mauricio]

Active crossover:  Capacitors, resistors and transistors powered by their own rail power supply acting on line voltage levels
Passive crossover:  Capacitors, inductors and resistors operating sans a power suplly, acting on high voltage levels.
 
Not that it is required, but I have a EE degree.  As an example of the elemental nature of passive crossovers, basic electric circuit theory (i.e. dealing with passive circuits of inductors, resistors and capacitors) is taught as a core engineering course during the second year.  Electronics (i.e. dealing with active circuitry based on transistors) is taught only to EEs, CEs, etc. as part of their specialized major curriculum.  If someone is talking sans knowledge, it is not I.
 

 

[Mauricio]

Quote:

 (regarding more space between power transformers and amplifier circuitry leading to less noise, and more room for bigger heat sinks, etc. etc.) 
 
 

Again, you misunderstand the fundamental differences between the two systems.  You are faulting active systems for lacking the space for large power transformers and massive amplifier circuitry.  Guess what?  Active systems don't need that.  You are applying a requirement of passive systems upon active ones.  You are comparing apples and oranges.
 

 

[alv4426]

Wow. Congrats on making us engineers seem even more DBish.
 
Quote:

Not that it is required, but I have a EE degree.  As an example of the elemental nature of passive crossovers, basic electric circuit theory (i.e. dealing with passive circuits of inductors, resistors and capacitors) is taught as a core engineering course during the second year.  Electronics (i.e. dealing with active circuitry based on transistors) is taught only to EEs, CEs, etc. as part of their specialized major curriculum.  If someone is talking sans knowledge, it is not I.
 

 

 

[Black Stuart]

Mauricio,
I must applaud your no  nonsense explanations
 
nepenthe - yes they are great are'nt they. I visited another forum member's home ( a different forum) to buy a spare pair of the G/heils and listened to his ESS speakers and within a minute I knew I had not made a wasted journey.
 
Lenni - if you know nothing about speaker building, should'nt you be asking questions rather than making pronouncements. OB - open baffle = no box = no colourations. Only room acoustics to integrate with.
 
I phoned my mate in the Netherlands about this very subject last night and he had difficulty understanding that massive power amps are'nt nec. because energy is being optimised with AXOs and not wasted in heat generation.
 
Mauricio has only hinted at the advantages of AXOs - for those who want to know and for those that 'think' they know - go read Rod Elliot's article on active v passive. There almost certainly are  other fine explanations about this but Rod writes in a no nonsense way - typical Aussie. You also have access to a computer programme he supplies on his site to work out values for AXOs and he provides very reasonable PCBs to build them with.
 
 

 

[Somnambulist]

For desktop listening I'm only ever going with near-field actives, got Focal CMS 50s, want to get Event Opals when I have the space/money.
 
I'm building Linkwitz Pluto speakers - also active.
 
I'd like to build Linkwitz Orion speakers, active crossovers, although it still requires several stereo amps, which handle the individual drivers.
 
I like actives... I want to get a pre/pro and use them for 5.1 or 5.2 surround, but it seems very hard to get active home theater speakers that don't cost the earth.

 

[firev1]

Quote:

I like actives... I want to get a pre/pro and use them for 5.1 or 5.2 surround, but it seems very hard to get active home theater speakers that don't cost the earth.

THAT^ Good cheap passives are a lot easier to find than good actives sometimes.

 

[Somnambulist]

I think it's mainly down to a lack of market demand and the fact that 99% of all home theater receivers are the all-in-one's with amps included. Pre/pros are generally expensive, e.g. the Marantz AV705 is one of the more affordable ones and that's like 1.5k. There are things like the Blue Sky 5.1 which are aimed at the home enthusiast for mixing, but generally powered speakers that are designed for home theater not nearfield listening (i.e. wider dispersion/driver placement) seem rare. Also, it would be a bit of a pain having to go round and turn on 5 speakers individually, as well as making for 5 sockets required rather than just the one for the receiver. I think for TV/HT I'll have to go passive, but for stereo or 2.1/2.2 I'll stay with actives and stay out of the amplifier game. It's bad enough wanting to change your speakers or your DAC, so once less bit of equipment is welcome.