[Triode User]

4. Seems like you might not be aware you're in the Sound Science sub-forum? ... Bye.

WAS in the Sound Science forum. If ever anything was misnamed it is this forum. As you say, bye.

 

[gregorio]

[1] WAS in the Sound Science forum.
[2] If ever anything was misnamed it is this forum.
[3] As you say, bye.

1. But you haven't provided any science or even anything resembling any science, all you've provided is your feeling that you've "lost patience", apparently that you only have an ounce of an enquiring mind.and an erroneous supposition of my understanding of audio systems, when you have absolutely no idea who I am or what my level of understanding is.

2. How would you know?

3. Didn't you realise I was quoting you? But you're still here?!

G

 

[bigshot]

WAS in the Sound Science forum. If ever anything was misnamed it is this forum. As you say, bye.

BUH-BYE!

 

[bigshot]

For me, I don't worry about why, only if, and for me the AQ Carbon USB cable was the right mix of improvement and cost because I don't digital EQ at the source.

If you just have one source it's OK to EQ at the source. But if you have multiple sources, it should be done at the last step before the amp. If the laptop is your only source, it's very easy to get parametric equalizers that work on laptops. They're a more precise way to either correct for imbalances or create coloration than using out of spec cables. There is no easier way to improve the sound of any system than proper EQing.

Understanding how digital audio works is the best way to be able to predict whether something will be an improvement or not. Random guesses end up with random results and ends up costing a lot more money than informed choices.

Working to eliminate bias by applying controls to your tests is the best way to know that your improvements are actually improvements. Bias is real. It's human. We all are subject to it. We shouldn't surrender to it.

Slackness in any of these things is fine for you if it meets your standards, but it doesn't mean that your techniques and impressions will be useful to anyone else. We all hear with the same sort of ears, but we aren't all subject to the same random luck or preconceived biases. I'm interested in having control over my system and that requires understanding and analysis. If you aren't interested in the science behind sound reproduction and you just want to roll the dice and plug something in and listen to music, feel free. But that isn't what this forum is about as I already explained.

For me, I don't worry about why, only if, and for me the AQ Carbon USB cable was the right mix of improvement and cost because I don't digital EQ at the source and anything lost between my laptop and DAC can never be recovered.

If you've found a USB cable that sounds different than others, it isn't conveying more information. It's more likely that it's altering the information in some way. Any certified USB cable should pass signals bit perfect. They should all be perfect. If one isn't, it is probably defective in some way. Maybe you like the way that defect sounds, but I tend to think it's not that. I think it's bias.

 

[GrussGott]

That sounds obvious and reasonable, but the problem is that our perceptions are actively constructed by our brains,

That's because for anyone who's primary concern is listening to music, it's not only reasonable, but the only answer: try it, if you like the effect keep it.

Leisurely listening to music is all in what you perceive.

Sure, there are many here from the amateur science club who post-stoke each other for pleasure, but I prefer the music, and music lovers focus on it-does, not why-it-does.

 

[GrussGott]

1. It doesn't take me 3 weeks to determine if a USB cable can pass a USB signal bit perfectly, just a few minutes.
1a. Again, what has hearing got to do with it, no human can hear digital data?

It's ok to admit you have no practical experience thus everything you post is simply the theoretical guesswork of an amateur.

 

[bigshot]

It's ok to admit you have no practical experience thus everything you post is simply the theoretical guesswork of an amateur.

Go away Herr Troll.

 

[donunus]

where is the evidence that cheap cables don't usually do the job? from which hat did you pull this 20% value?

the fact is that most people don't have to and don't care about USB cables at all. they get a DAC, plug the USB cable usually provided with it and never have to think about it again. people who buy several USB cables to try them, they're maniacs. I'm one of those somehow, and there isn't a single doubt that I've done more extensive testing of my cables than most audiophiles. but I can still see that it's not the usual behavior or what everybody should do. USB cables aren't bad enough often enough to warrant suspecting them de facto of failing at transparency.

Last time I checked this hobby was about getting enjoyment out of one's system and if something sounds better to you then it is evidence enough but since we are in the sound science forum and I am not an engineer or scientist that can give you papers proving evidence then you win. All I know is that I can tell the difference and I enjoy the nuances that the better cables can give me. I'm out lol

 

[castleofargh]

That's because for anyone who's primary concern is listening to music,

it's not only reasonable, but the only answer: try it, if you like the effect keep it.

Leisurely listening to music is all in what you perceive.

Sure, there are many here from the amateur science club who post-stoke each other for pleasure, but I prefer the music, and music lovers focus on it-does, not why-it-does.

music lovers focus on whatever the hell they want, thank you very much.
if you want to push that line of thought, this amateur science club's main focus is on making sure that a listening experience is about the music and as little else as possible. in effect, we're more interested in music than many other audiophiles for we focus almost entirely on sound in our experiences.
and when we rely on measurements to make sure a USB cable does its job, we can effectively confirm that it's offering the expected high fidelity at the output of the DAC. those who don't care can go with their own gut feelings, but for those who care about fidelity, measurement is

not only reasonable, but the only answer

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last time I checked this hobby was about getting enjoyment out of one's system and if something sounds better to you then it is evidence enough but since we are in the sound science forum and I am not an engineer or scientist that can give you papers proving evidence then you win. All I know is that I can tell the difference and I enjoy the nuances that the better cables can give me. I'm out lol

I have no issue with you or anybody else picking his gears however he likes for any possible reason. but the second someone insinuates that the difference is big enough to be audible in USB cables, I'm going to desire evidence and context. and that despite convincing arguments such as:

of course it's tricky to go do a proper blind test of USB cables, but if something is hard to prove, where I was raised it meant that people should not make claims about it.
I'll never deny a possibility for audible differences, I have my own bag of weird audio anecdotes. but I'm also conscious of all the people(me included) who will be sure they heard a difference in sighted tests when there wasn't one. so without any sort of evidence or measurement suggesting possible audibility, why should I assume that you're not one of them?
so my typical reaction is to reject the claim until something convincing comes up to support it. for the same reason I'm also not a fan of people claiming there cannot be any difference caused by USB cables. no proper mean to prove something=no claim. if we could just follow that I'd be a happy camper.

 

[donunus]

Oh I have done a blind test but its really hard to prove to you unless you were here so this thread is actually useless lol

 

[Brooko]

It's ok to admit you have no practical experience thus everything you post is simply the theoretical guesswork of an amateur.

The funny thing is that you have zero knowledge of Greg's credentials - yet you post this.

A few short facts for you:

• Professional for decades
• Musician and producer
• Owns own professional studio
• Grammy award winning

Perhaps you'd like to retract or apologise ?

 

[GrussGott]

Perhaps you'd like to retract or apologise ?

LOL. Ah, the assumptions we make.

Why would I do that? According to your list, Greg is not

* A digital signals processing scientist
* A digital signals engineer
* A digital audio products designer
* not even an electrician

So sure, he's super qualified to comment on exactly what I said: a non-scientific opinion on what system configurations he's used and what he heard. that would be super useful! As it is, if he's not heard a particular cable - has no practical experience with it - he's not qualified to discuss it ... and even if he has, he's not qualified to offer a scientific opinion.

Anybody think the name of this sub-forum is unrealistically aspirational?

anyway, if you tell me the music he produced I'll be sure to listen to it with a shiity USB cable as he intends.

 

[riffrafff]

The funny thing is that you have zero knowledge of Greg's credentials - yet you post this.

A few short facts for you:

• Professional for decades
• Musician and producer
• Owns own professional studio
• Grammy award winning

Perhaps you'd like to retract or apologise ?

LOL. Ah, the assumptions we make.

 

[GrussGott]

Last time I checked this hobby was about getting enjoyment out of one's system and if something sounds better to you then it is evidence enough but since we are in the sound science forum and I am not an engineer or scientist

Don't let that stop you! Nobody else here does. "science"

 

[Brooko]

Why would I do that? According to your list, Greg is not

* A digital signals processing scientist
* A digital signals engineer
* A digital audio products designer
* not even an electrician

So sure, he's super qualified to comment on exactly what I said: a non-scientific opinion on what system configurations he's used and what he heard. that would be super useful! As it is, if he's not heard a particular cable - has no practical experience with it - he's not qualified to discuss it ... and even if he has, he's not qualified to offer a scientific opinion.

Anybody think the name of this sub-forum is unrealistically aspirational?

anyway, if you tell me the music he produced I'll be sure to listen to it with a shiity USB cable as he intends.

You did not answer my question about your assumption - which I shall state again plainly for all to see:

It's ok to admit you have no practical experience thus everything you post is simply the theoretical guesswork of an amateur.

Please quote your own actual qualifications.