[amirm]

100% true....but the graph kinda flies in the face of "they're all the same"....audible?maybe to a bat....still obviously different though.

That's it. If we say that is impossible then we don't know enough about the design of the products in question.

Even on audibility for all the talking we do we don't bother to measure. We just assume. As objectivists we need to back what we say with data.

 

[amirm]

Don't your results show that this didn't happen with the Behringer?

Sure. But of the thousands of DACs, I have tested a tiny fraction.

I am not making a case for audibility of USB cables mind you. I just like to see us not use assumptions but confirmation of the same using data.

 

[amirm]

It's more useful to just say what colonelkernal said up front. There is no difference between USB cables. For the purposes we are all using them for, that is an accurate statement. Wasting time discussing differences more than 120dB down, is absurd.

You say there is no difference and then go and admit there can be "120 db down?" Can't have it both ways.

 

[colonelkernel8]

You say there is no difference and then go and admit there can be "120 db down?" Can't have it both ways.

*sigh*.

Show me the test with an equivalent length of "audiophile" cable or use a shorter length of the cheap USB cable. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[chef8489]

How many times were each cable tested? How many different cables were tested? What was the setup for testing and measuring means?

 

[bigshot]

You say there is no difference and then go and admit there can be "120 db down?" Can't have it both ways.

A cable has a purpose. Either it succeeds in accomplishing that purpose, or it doesn't. The fact that you are incapable of understanding that says a lot about the value of your comments. You're looking at the motes in eyes. Your comments have no purpose. Goodnight, Gracie.

 

[bigshot]

Ok....sorry...just trying to get Bigshot goin(sorry bud)

There's enough stupidity without trying to make me go to the same place! I don't go there. My eyes are on the prize. That's why I make people so irritated.

i think there are things we haven't figured out how to measure yet.

Define that and you'll be the God of this forum. Until then, we'll depend on what we already know.

RABBIT HOLE, AHOY!

 

[Clive101]

This next part seems to be where most people get their panties in a bunch. The difference you hear is all in your head. There is no actual difference between difference USB cables. Period. We have proven this over 46 unfortunate pages of this thread using commonsense, logic, and most importantly, science, from countless qualified sources. Your mind is a powerful thing and nobody likes to hear that what they are clearly hearing with their own ears is indeed their brain playing a trick on them. Placebo is real.

Ah yes the Placebo effect.
It works both ways.
Perhaps there is a difference in SQ and some cannot hear it..? The Placebo working in mysterious ways..?
Perhaps the brain is more sensitive than can be measured by a machine..?

 

[bigshot]

Perhaps the brain is more sensitive than can be measured by a machine..?

When it comes to audibility of noise in an audio signal, what evidence do you have to believe that? The thresholds of perception are pretty well researched and documented. If you click on the link in my sig, you'll find evidence that the most annoying kind of noise possible becomes inaudible after about -45dB.

Convincing yourself that you can hear things you really can't is normal placebo. Convincing yourself that you don't hear things that are clearly audible is a lot more difficult.

 

[Clive101]

When it comes to audibility of noise in an audio signal, what evidence do you have to believe that?

Nice question but was a "perhaps" in my post. Who knows what we are able to measure in the future..? So I offer no evidence.

Anyone got one of these 28 k machines in the UK with a decent Hifi I will bring some USB cables, DAC, music server etc over and hopefully we can get some sort of test..? Driving distance from London please.

 

[Glmoneydawg]

There's enough stupidity without trying to make me go to the same place! I don't go there. My eyes are on the prize. That's why I make people so irritated.



Define that and you'll be the God of this forum. Until then, we'll depend on what we already know.

RABBIT HOLE, AHOY!

fair enough.

 

[colonelkernel8]

There's enough stupidity without trying to make me go to the same place! I don't go there. My eyes are on the prize. That's why I make people so irritated.



Define that and you'll be the God of this forum. Until then, we'll depend on what we already know.

RABBIT HOLE, AHOY!

Disagree. People always want some little room for the "unknown" (i.e. god in other philosophical arguments) so they can continue justifying their biases. It's the very notion of "god of the gaps" in practice.

 

[amirm]

How many times were each cable tested? How many different cables were tested? What was the setup for testing and measuring means?

It is all in the article I referenced. Half a dozen or so "cables" were tested including an audiophile one. The measuring means is an Audio Precision analyzer which I use for all of my reviews and measurements. The analysis is the output of the DAC which is the only thing that matters (not the USB signal). In other words, I am measuring how the waveforms change.

I also tested another audiophile USB cable here.

And what do you mean how many times? You expect the data to change in each insertion?

 

[amirm]

*sigh*.

Show me the test with an equivalent length of "audiophile" cable or use a shorter length of the cheap USB cable. Otherwise you're comparing apples and oranges.

Why? I thought you were saying USB cables can't make a difference?

That aside, did you not read the article? That is exactly the conclusion I stated in there: that shorter cables do better.

 

[amirm]

A cable has a purpose. Either it succeeds in accomplishing that purpose, or it doesn't.

I am measuring the analog output of a DAC in those tests. So there is noting binary there. Audio DACs are mixed-domain devices -- part analog, part digital. In such systems the digital side can impact the analog performance. And that impact is shown in my actual measurements.

The fact that you are incapable of understanding that says a lot about the value of your comments. You're looking at the motes in eyes. Your comments have no purpose. Goodnight, Gracie.

Well, why don't you reflect on your own commentary. I am showing hard, concrete evidence that changing USB cables and nothing else, makes the analog output of a DAC change. You go around promoting myths that this can't happen. It of course does and there is real engineering explanation why that is the case.

You are not a designer and go by lay intuition and stuff you read online from folks just like you. In a science forum, you need to expect to get corrected when you misstate how the real world works especially when that correction is accompanied by real data. Just because you wear the hat of audio objectivism, doesn't mean you know how things work.