[hembergler]

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That's good that they corrected the error.  Mind you, that was pretty much after you paid them nearly enough for a new one in support.  (AppleCare ($300) + repairs ($800) + chargers/parts ($100-300))
 
I really do think this is the problem.  People see the lowest end laptop, and compare it to the lowest end Mac.  Hugely different prices, but still 'lowest end'.
 
Also, colleges/schools using Macs exclusively (like mine) really makes me mad.  Windows/Linux have a lot to offer, and they lock everyone into that one system.

 
Yep, bothers me too. Apple's marketing has always mad me angry, and their customer service is worse. I've always been conflicted about Apple: I have a deep-seated hatred of the company, but I also really like and appreciate their products (well, some of their products. Stuff like the Mac Mini, Apple TV, even Mac Pro kinda blow). I want to root against them, but sometimes what they produce is so solidly designed and thought out that I can't help but be impressed.
 
 
Seems like you're very much on the Windows side of the fence. Why don't you just get a Windows laptop? I don't think anyone here is going to be able to convince you to get a Mac; you've already answered all of the usual points that people raise about OS X's superiority over Windows.

 

[Hybrys]

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Yep, bothers me too. Apple's marketing has always mad me angry, and their customer service is worse. I've always been conflicted about Apple: I have a deep-seated hatred of the company, but I also really like and appreciate their products (well, some of their products. Stuff like the Mac Mini, Apple TV, even Mac Pro kinda blow). I want to root against them, but sometimes what they produce is so solidly designed and thought out that I can't help but be impressed.
 
 
Seems like you're very much on the Windows side of the fence. Why don't you just get a Windows laptop? I don't think anyone here is going to be able to convince you to get a Mac; you've already answered all of the usual points that people raise about OS X's superiority over Windows.

I very much hate their success with mobile products...  The iPhone/iPad App Store lockdown bothers me intensely.  But yet, they still sell so many.
 
I'm on the Windows side of the fence, but only currently.  I go for full featured and compatibility.  Too many companys seem to support Linux less than OSX/Windows, so I haven't hopped in that direction yet... I'm just always curious to why people buy them, and what lies they tell themselves to justify it.  If there was to be more positives than negatives, and some intelligent reason why everyone in the Sound Production field has a Mac/Macbook, I'd be inclined to buy one.

 

[utdeep]

LOL.  This is sad.  I can't actually see a Windows machine in your future now.  You're far too "curious" to understand the Macbook appeal.
 
Well, here's something you should consider - buy a slightly used macbook pro on eBay using our Bing cashback (which ends at the end of July if I recall) which is around 8%.  Try it out for a few months.  Whether you like it or not, sell it back on eBay.  As long as you have some positive feedback on eBay, the resale value should be as much as you paid for it (or more).  You'll get your money back + the bing cashback.
 
Based on your comments about closing out applications in OSX, it doesn't appear like you've spent enough time working in it.  Also, never customize via Apple's website.  You can get 8GB of RAM for around $200 from OWC (after you send back your 4gb) and probably a 500GB momentus XT for $100 if you don't need an SSD.
 
I've been in the field for 10 years now and I usually switch between a Thinkpad X series or a macbook pro.  It's a good time for any OS right now... their is more parity then there has ever been.  However, you sound like a person who might appreciate some of the smaller details that make a macbook pro an enjoyable machine.  

 

[Adda]

If you want to work with professional 3D, you need a FirePro or Quadro video card if you want decent performance.
Does Macs come with one of these video cards? no, they come with Geforce cards for consumer applications and games.
This is because Macs are fashion wear, not workstations.
 
A ThinkPad W700 or W701 seems to be what you are looking for, 17" screen, Quadro video card and dual HDD bays, it's a huge honk to carry around though, but it performs exceptionally well.
HP, Dell or any of the other business laptop manufacturers also have workstation laptops that might fit your needs.
 
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I need top performance for 3D design, and lighting design emulation.

 

[kayaker3057]

I've been waiting for this laptop for a long time now.  It is almost out.  Hp Envy.  http://www.amazon.com/HP-ENVY-17-1011NR-17-3-Inch-Laptop/dp/B003L780XS  Prepare to be amazed

 

[cyberspyder]

I'd go with a Voodoo Envy133

 

[hakuryuu]

Quote:

I very much hate their success with mobile products...  The iPhone/iPad App Store lockdown bothers me intensely.  But yet, they still sell so many.
 
I'm on the Windows side of the fence, but only currently.  I go for full featured and compatibility.  Too many companys seem to support Linux less than OSX/Windows, so I haven't hopped in that direction yet... I'm just always curious to why people buy them, and what lies they tell themselves to justify it.  If there was to be more positives than negatives, and some intelligent reason why everyone in the Sound Production field has a Mac/Macbook, I'd be inclined to buy one.

 
Are they using Apogee products? Because their hardware is Mac only and also very good. And no doubt some of the negatives you see are positives or non-issues to others. I have always felt my Macs out of the box had better audio than any windows/pc product I have ever used. They have built in optical input/output and such as well as firewire which is better than usb for audio.
 
And yeah, if you really are worried about 3D then you are probably looking at the wrong hardware. A real workstation video card is your only choice in that matter. Companies such as Solidworks and Autodesk are starting to make their major products for Mac, and Maya was already there. But a Mac Pro is the only choice for real 3D work as you can get workstation graphics for them. Otherwise go Lenovo or Dell.
 

 

[RicHSAD]

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Also, as far as windows being more secure, I don't think that's true.

Yes it is. Hackers have said it themselves that Windows is more secure. As everyone keeps saying, the only reason why there aren't as many viruses and crap on OSX is because Apple's market is just too low.
 
The weak link on a computer is always the end user anyway. I have used a Vista machine for months without an AV software and I never caught anything (I would occasionally install an AV software to run a scan). A bit of common sense is often all that is needed to keep the junk away.
 

 

[lxxl]

Hybrys, it's good that you ask and listen for advice for Macs, even though in the end you may or may not choose them. I would give you info about Macs, however you already have a pretty good idea from me.
 
I am currently in a multimedia conference, and we had many debates using software regarding to Windows or OSX, and for years, it has not been settled. However, during the few days of conference, it's strange but... all the presenters (national wide) are using Macs. Perhaps it's great for multimedia workloads, or perhaps it's the design that attracts them (designing is a big part of multimedia), or perhaps Macs just work great out of the box since all components, hardware and software, were made from the the same company(s).

 

[Mr.Sneis]

Honestly, I love Macs AND PC's.  I really miss my Mac setup(s).
 
Right now I'm rocking an HP Envy 15 with an i7 620; it's an OK computer but I would pretty much trade in a heartbeat for a 15" MBP
 
What did I like about it?  The clean OS, the great hardware design (pull one apart and the difference between most windows based lappy's pale in comparison), the nice accessories and 3rd part support, and the fact that it compliments having a PC at home just fine.  As a nerd knowing both worlds is a pre-requisite!  Also note that the OS costs a whopping $30!!

 

[Hybrys]

I'm really really debating it heavily...  I do see that MOST people use Macs, but there are so many issues I have with them.  That said, if just having it gives me a boost in my career path, then why not?
 
For one, everyone here seems to believe that the hardware is some how magically better.  It's the same thing you'd find in any laptop... Seriously.  Look up a teardown of the Macbook 2010, then look up the teardown of the HP ENVY 17, or something similar.  You'll see a lot of similar names.
 
For two, accessories.  A few now have mentioned that they support a wide variety of accessories.  But you're just brainwashed to believe that.  A Mac comes with a 'DisplayPort' output, yay, all digital from one output.  A laptop would come with a VGA output and a HDMI output, which is actually superior.  To get either VGA, DVI, or HDMI out of the DisplayPort on the Mac, you need to get a $30 adapter.  EACH.
 
For three, the compatibility issues.  Most of my favorite software is Windows only.  Not like I wouldn't be able to find OSX substitutes, but, It's just more to learn.
 
I do like that someone mentioned that you can get a low-end system and upgrade it for cheaper.  I LOVE vendors that will let you trade it old, to be unused components towards new ones.  I like this, but I have a question towards this.
 
If I was to get a low-end 17" MBP with an i5 in it, could I get an i7 920QM and throw it in?  Or do they solder the processors into place?  (You can find PGA and BGA versions of the 920QM, so that's a non-issue)

 

[mrarroyo]

About 2 weeks ago I received my brand new 21.5 iMac 3.06 computer. It is the first Apple computer I own and it has been a painful 2 weeks, having to relearn every way of doing things, from print screens to using email. I have a long ways to go but I almost returned it.
 
BTW, the new smallish keyboard included w/ the iMac's suck big time specially if you have fat fingers like I do. iPhoto sucks and I am using Picasa which is a bit better. In short I will be taking a few classes to not feel as stupid as I do now.

 

[utdeep]

You can't replace the processor

"Hackers" say a lot of things. Many say the opposite. Believe me, there's enough incentive to make OSX look bad without the marketshare. Want to get on the front page of engadget and slashdot? There's been a target on OSX for years now. That 10% market share knows nothing about firewalls, antivirus protection, or full drive encryption... and that's the way Apple likes it. If someone can find a way to exploit that, they'd have access to an audience with greater disposable income and less computer awareness then the average Windows user. They'd never know what hit them. Who wouldn't want to wipe the smirk off Justin Long's face?

Most people don't use Macs. Those of us who do are addicted to the little features that make us happy. For me it's the following:
- The computer recognizing the different volumes needed when a headphone is plugged in
- The illuminated keyboard
- Two fingered right click and scrolling
- Uber quick boot and resume times
- High resale value. They only get updated once to two times an year. They are so easy to sell too.
- Literally hundreds of accessories made for this "minority". When I say accessories, I don't mean the computer type. You're right about the stupid dongles for other display standards. I wouldn't know... I don't think my apple cinema display has any of those other ports
- like it or not, people see a Mac, and they think you're the creative type with money to burn. They probably have a lot of negative thoughts too. Other brands don't have the same reputations. You and I might respect the power of an alienware laptop, but others see the glowing alien head and they've got no idea what it represents. My sister's at film school in USC... having a MacBook is almost a right of passage there

Other laptops have ALL these feature AND more. Us cultists just believe they come together better in a Macbook.

You've mentioned some of the negatives, so let me give you a few more:
- No SSD trim support. Get an SSD drive and it should slow down over time. Who knows when that's coming...
- "Blu-Ray is a bag of hurt"
- built in battery
- two USB ports on a 15 inch computer?
- on Tuesday mornings, you'll hit the refresh button on the apple store several times to see if it has gone down so Apple can introduce new products
- you'll end up responding to threads like these where you counter rational arguments with irrational ones. After you're done, you'll want to kiss your iPad. Then you'll probably look around and notice there are no non- Apple users in the coffee shop.

Seriously, if it's money and power you care about, look at the Envy or Thinkpad workstations. On pure specs and price, macbooks are overrated. However, I guarantee your curiosity will take you down this path someday soon. It's a lot like trying different headphones. Different 'phones for different folks.

 

[lxxl]

I didn't think Macs have better hardware, but models have the same hardware, and slightly above average (or more) quality for the parts we touch (casing, keyboard etc). But writing a software knowing the few parts of hardware from the models would definitely help stability of the programs (vs PC where programmers would have way too many hardware problems due to so many different types of hardware out there). Crashing is not fun, and it often happens on a PC more then a Mac (this would be a selling point to me if I don't know anything about computers).
 
Building your own PC would boost the quality of your computer, however programs will still crash due to too many different types of hardware and possibly the operation system.

 

[RicHSAD]

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"Hackers" say a lot of things. Many say the opposite.
 

You realize that there are hacking contest out there such as PWN2OWN and from what I've seen OSX/Safari is always one of the first to fall? If I remember correctly, it took about 10 seconds for Apple to fall the last time, very impressive for a supposedly secure OS. You can convince yourself otherwise, but OSX isn't as secure as Apple would have you believe with their pretty ads.
 
I'm the kind of person that value his money and for me buying a Macbook will just never make sense. They offer less functionalities than a PC but yet cost significantly more. There are way too many things that I want to do on a computer but could not do with a Macbook that buying one just makes no sense whatever. Even if all I wanted was to browse the web and listen to music on Itunes, buying a Macbook would then make even less sense as then I could just get a cheap laptop or netbook to do just that and use the extra money on something else that's actually useful. The resale value is irrelevant to me too as in the end I still paid more for less regardless of how much I can resell it.
 
The argument that Windows crashes all the time is also way exaggerated. I do not recall when is the last time that my PC crashed. Also when you consider the amount of software and hardware combination available on a Windows PC, it is almost surprising that it doesn't crash more than it does. Most of the issues are caused by the end users because they just install junk softwares on their machine. When someone tells me that their PC is slow and then I see 4 rows of toolbars on their IE, I know exactly who is the blame and it certainly isn't Windows. If OSX supported half of what Windows does it wouldn't be any better.