[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad There is no reason for audio cables to sell for more than a few dollars. People are silly, and will pay massive amounts for them.

This is not always true. Many cables like the Silver Dragon and RnB's Grace Five are expensive to build. Some of the interconnects for speakers are absurdly priced, though.

 

[shplorgh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad and they get the parts a lot cheaper than you do.

What are you talking about?

Quote:

There is no reason for audio cables to sell for more than a few dollars. People are silly, and will pay massive amounts for them.

Umm, no? The raw materials themselves cost far more than "a few dollars". As well as the time spent braiding, soldering, etc. There is not question that alot of so-called "snake oil" cables are overpriced, but you can't make sweeping generalizations like this, it makes you seem awfully pretentious.

 

[apostate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake01 I dunno people; correct me where I am wrong. Research: I don't know how much money is spent here; but I think it is not a lot, especially for second and third generation versions of the product line. Parts: Do they even add up to a quarter/third of the sale price? For mass-produced equipment, they are sourced in bulk, right? Assembly: I am sure (most of) these products are not assembled by hand, are they? They're just printed circuit boards soldered by robots (?). I am guessing only a part of the physical assembly process is done by hand. Marketing/Packaging: Teensy bit, I am sure. Shipping: Generally mentioned and charged separately from the sale price of the product. Profit: You tell me. Well, if 'audiophiles' are willing to pay more, then why the heck not. *shrug*

Don't forget:

Testing: someone has to make sure the products work as intended and ensure that none of the new units fail to work properly. Not only that but if your defective unit rate is 1/100 that is going to increase the costs for the other 99.

Support/Warranty: someone has to answer questions and make repairs when there are failures.

Storage: unless they're build to order you have to have room to store the parts and finished product until they are sold.

Assuming the company is big enough there are also recurring infrastructure costs, administrative staff, office supplies, power/water/trash, etc. If you are a high volume business then these may be small but a lower volume business (like selling headphone amps) could result in this being significant.

There are also other potential influences like, if they will be sold through a retailer/reseller, you will still need to make a profit and so will the reseller. Their profit will have to include some of the same factors (support, storage, etc.) as well as potentially covering their losses if some of the units remain unsold (assuming they bought them outright initially and there isn't some different arrangement). If there is no reseller/retailer then you have to include some of the costs of whatever your order system will be (whether it is web, catalog, etc.). Depending on the size of the company, volume of product sold, target audience, etc. there can be a lot of other costs that come in to play.

Ant

 

[sxr71]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad They are as expensive as they are, because that's what the market will bear. Look at the parts on a Cmoy. You can build one for <$40, and they get the parts a lot cheaper than you do. Also look at the Go-Vibe. Nice cheap amp. There is no reason for audio cables to sell for more than a few dollars. People are silly, and will pay massive amounts for them.

Some Cmoy sellers will sell you a Cmoy for around $50-60 and that's after hand building it for you and still taking the responsibility of repairing it should something go wrong. Seriously let these guys live.

As for parts they may get it around 10% cheaper at best because they don't order in 10,000+ quantities. They might order a hundred at a time.

Hey, if you don't want to pay the "massive amounts" people pay for them, then just DIY. Nobody's stopping anyone from doing that. If anything there are websites giving you free plans and instructions.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Because they make the music sound a lot better and we like that!

 

[imported_t_s]

Amplifiers electrically are extremely simple designs. Even the fancy ones are still relatively simple. And the cost of parts are only a very small portion of the total price.
The only issue is that they aren't mass produced. The motherboard for a computer costs us ~100-200 in the stores but only because of how many are made. They are orders of magnitude more complex, like comparing the size of the earth to the sun if you'll excuse the loose analogy. SMT machines can be used and production processes are tweaked and streamlined to the extreme. I know that contractors will charge $1000+ for the fabrication of a single prototype motherboard, and that's if you order in quantities of 50+. Forget about building one by hand - lol - the very thought makes me laugh.
So in other words, if headphone amps were commodity and were mass produced and can be found at your average consumer electronics store, they'd cost $20 bucks. Heck, even dvd players are more complex and cheap ones cost less than $50. So does it totally suck that something as simple as an amp costs so much? Yes. But is it understandable? Yes.

 

[JahJahBinks]

Even the cost of plasma TV is approaching the thousand dollar barrier.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JahJahBinks Even the cost of plasma TV is approaching the thousand dollar barrier.

Huh? Atleast in the US, Plasma TVs have always been over 1k....

 

[JahJahBinks]

you probably missed a few deals on black friday.

 

[RedLeader]

Some very good points made here, the mass-produced is basically the main reason. Pick your favourite amp. Go buy all of the parts for it, including PCB. And get that PCB manufactured for you instead of buying it from someone else. Then get the schematics that someone else researched, tested and wrote up. Now you have to be able to understand and follow those schematics. You solder everything together (with a good iron, solder, hs, etc) and when you plug it into your bench psu, something doesnt work. Now get out your scope and sweep generator. So you've finally got it fixed. Add up all your costs, and then your labour costs. Then put in that you've got to make some profit on it for it to be worthwhile. It makes perfect sense, and yes it does suck.

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JahJahBinks you probably missed a few deals on black friday.

I probably did but as a description of the regular price, most plasma TVs are well over 1k.

 

[adhoc]

...and even if they were soldered by robots, how much would it cost to set up those robots??!

Not a insignificant amount, I'm willing to bet.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jake01 As the title says. They're just amps after all! Some cost more than headphones themselves!

Because they're overdone? (or overmarketed?)

 

[drarthurwells]

My forte' has always been to find components that are low cost, but not significantly of lesser sound quality, than the highest priced component made.

No where is this better exemplified than in the Bada PH12 headphone amp.

I would pay 10 times its price if I could find something significantly better, and 5 times it price if I could find something just very slightly better.

It is not out there. Hybrid design (tube preamp with solid state amp) is superior, and no better hybrid amp at any price is single ended, with Class A and no opamps and no transformer in the output stage, a really huge and high quality power transformer, capacitance that would do in a speaker amp, and a perfect integration of tube and SS sound characteristics.

For some, spending more money on a component is identified with getting better sound quality. They gush over high priced equipment when some component of lesser price is actually better.

 

[jake01]

So, Doc... how much does your Bada cost again?