[HappymaN]

Are they really that hard to make? Or is it just because they are made on a low-production numbers basis? I'd really like to purchase a nice pair of headphones, to upgrade from my HP890's, but I just can't afford the amplifier. Would i tbe that bad for me to listen to say, the HD-580's through the headphone jack of my Denon micro-hifi system?

 

[mkyy]

There are cheaper ( in terms of price ) alternatives, like the JMT altoids and the Porta Corda. If you're willing to pick up a soldering iron, you can DIY a cmoy or get the kit version of porta corda to save more money for your next HP

 

[hokiefritz]

Certainly quality of the parts used is a big factor in the cost of amplifiers, as it costs next to nothing to just boost a signal e.g. the headphone amp that comes with your portable CD player probably cost less than a buck.

I highly recommend you send a PM to JMT and inquire about him making you an amp. He makes excellent amps at very reasonable prices. I am very pleased with the one he made for me.

I'm sure you could listen to the HD580's through you micro-hifi, but you likely wouldn't get the most performance out of them without proper applification.

There are other headphones that have lower impenence that would work better out of a jack. I recommend the AT W100 headphones. They sound terrrific and are very easy to drive. The downside is that they are a hassle to purchase since they only distribute them in Asia and the Orient, and are relatively expensive. If you want to stick with Sennheiser, the HD590s are 120 ohms and would be much easier to drive out of your stereo jack than the HD580s. I've read many good comments about the HD590 phones, but haven't heard them myself.

I'm sure others on the board could suggest some additional low impedance phones if you don't want to or are unable to shell out for an amp.


Cheers!

 

[jopi]

I've listened for month with my AKG501s without an amp and the sound is MUCH better than with lesser headphones.
The amp takes it yet to a different level, but in my opinion good headphones are still worth their money without an amp.

In fact, once I've got my amp and found out that I had to upgrade my source to make it worthwhile.

 

[kelly]

Headphone amplifiers are not expensive. If you think they are maybe you should check the prices of speaker amplifiers. One reason many of us, including myself, persue this hobby is because high end systems are so much more attainable with headphones than with speakers.

The HD600 is a difficult to drive headphone. It has an impedance of 300 ohms and IMO doesn't even begin to reach its potential with sub-$1000 amps. But you know what? It's a $450 headphone. What the hell do you expect? The fact that you can now get a good deal by mail order on the headphone is no reason to suddenly assume that it's a cheap headphone.

My point is that if you want headphones that are easy to drive without a lot of amplification, they are plenty in number. There are many many more low impedance easy to drive headphones than there are headphones like the HD600.

For some reason a lot of people get this attitude that says "Hey, I should be able to buy the world's best headphones and drive them with the world's cheapest op amp headphone jacks and make them sound great." Reality isn't so grim but it does make a bti more sense than that. How many people do you see driving $75000 speakers with an Aiwa mini-system? Why should it be different with headphones?

Everyone wants something for nothing. But I blame this misconception on the Sennheiser fanatics who are either dishonest or delusional about the performance of the headphone on smaller amplification compared to other lower priced alternatives.

 

[Jeff Guidry]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Everyone wants something for nothing. But I blame this misconception on the Sennheiser fanatics who are either dishonest or delusional about the performance of the headphone on smaller amplification compared to other lower priced alternatives.

That's a rather bold statement, and frankly, I don't see justification for it. Never have I seen any Senn user recommend an inexpensive amp for the Senn's unless a user asked about a low cost solution to driving them. I have noticed however lots of people that have bought the Senns as their first headphone making comments about how the headphone sounds from a soundcard or other such so-so quality source and then asking ab out a low cost way to improve it. I hardly qualify these people as fanatics.

Please be aware that when you use terms like "fanatic" "dishonest" or "delusional" to describe the actions of others you are creating a hostile and uncomfortable atmosphere. That's been happening a lot on this board recently, and I hope that we will all watch what we say more carefully.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Quote:

Everyone wants something for nothing. But I blame this misconception on the Sennheiser fanatics who are either dishonest or delusional about the performance of the headphone on smaller amplification compared to other lower priced alternatives.

Just because YOU can't enjoy the Senn HD600 without a $1000 amp doesn't mean that other people can't.

 

[discoman]

HappymaN

You may buy the HD580 + PORTA CORDA from Jan, it should cost you about $300us. This can be an once-for-all solution, and ending your upgrading itch for a while. And you can built it yourself too, so you will know exactly how hard to built one.

(took me 2 hours)

Personally, I won't use HD580 w/o a headamp (beside D-25s and 15 yrs old preamp, but only OK). Porta corda (24v-16AA) is 90% of big Corda HA1 for HD580. You won't hear a difference between them unless you got a good source. The next real step up from this $300 combo may cost well over $1000. (HD600 + cable + MAX)

Enjoy your HP890 and save some money and upgrading.

0.02

discoman

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly Everyone wants something for nothing. But I blame this misconception on the Sennheiser fanatics who are either dishonest or delusional about the performance of the headphone on smaller amplification compared to other lower priced alternatives.

Now then, I read this differently... I (hope I) read this as Kelly meant it, that for the most part Sennheiser owners (including myself) use lesser amplification than others, so are not squeezing the last bit of potential possible out of the 'phones... that doesn't make us bad... but it makes us dillusional, and dishonest to OURSELVES... hoping that we've got the best, when there IS better out there...

No flames on me please... I'm only trying to clear up this debate, not add to it... so, if i'm wrong, i'll apologise now...

Thanks

 

[gaineso]

Quote:

Originally posted by Duncan Now then, I read this differently... I (hope I) read this as Kelly meant it, that for the most part Sennheiser owners (including myself) use lesser amplification than others, so are not squeezing the last bit of potential possible out of the 'phones... that doesn't make us bad... but it makes us dillusional, and dishonest to OURSELVES... hoping that we've got the best, when there IS better out there... No flames on me please... I'm only trying to clear up this debate, not add to it... so, if i'm wrong, i'll apologise now... Thanks

I'm a little offended by first Kelly and then Duncan lumping a whole bunch of people together and then insulting them and their intelligence.

I've got HD600's. I know they are fantastic. They sound DECENT, easy to listen to, from my PCDP and PCP. They sound BETTER from my JVC receiver using an APEX DVD for source. They are Better still from my H-K Receiver and H-K CDP or Pioneer DVD sources. Noticeably better still with my TA from the Tape out of the JVC. Fantastic sound from the H-K CDP line out to the TA.

However, I am part of the Headroom Educational Loaner Program, and I had a late model "Little" for 2 weeks. Another huge improvement. From whatever source.

Now to my main point. I am very happy with the sound I have got now. I know it's not ultimate. I know it's not the best I can get. BUT. It sounds good and it's enjoyable. It's also what I can afford right now, because, while good sound, good music is very important to me, I don't obsess over the equipment. Right now, I have other priorities. 5 or 6 months from now, I'll probably upgrade to a better amp.

In the meantime, I'll thoroughly enjoy what I have. I am not at all dillusional or dishonest with MYSELF. At least about my audio systems. They sound GOOD. They are easily ENJOYABLE. I know they aren't the best. SO WHAT.

IMNSHO, anyone who can't get what they can get AT THE TIME and enjoy it, is not in this for the enjoyment of music. IMNSHO, these people are only in this for the obessision with STUFF.

 

[Duncan]

Oops, well I know that there is better out there for my own application... and, I did NOT at ANY point refer to ALL Senn owners did I?

We, at Head-Fi are not the only people to own Senns, I'd say that with a couple of thousand members, and only about 30% of those members owning senns that we're a very small part of Sennheisers headphone consumer market... we are a niche... think of all the people who just buy them outside of this community for their worth, and never fire them up to their full potential

Peace

 

[DeanA]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly The HD600 is a difficult to drive headphone. It has an impedance of 300 ohms and IMO doesn't even begin to reach its potential with sub-$1000 amps.

Wow, that sure does limit the market place for Sennheiser! And I actually thought I was getting a pretty good sound out of my Maxed Out Home and HD600 combination. Boy, you sure can learn a lot in this forum.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Quote:

Wow, that sure does limit the market place for Sennheiser! And I actually thought I was getting a pretty good sound out of my Maxed Out Home and HD600 combination. Boy, you sure can learn a lot in this forum.

That's exactly the kind of impression we don't want kelly to convey--or do I sense sarcasm here?

Just make sure you get an amp with 0 ohm output (the Corda and even the Porta Corda has it, not sure about the HeadRoom amps) to cooperate with the Sennheiser phones' electromagnetic damping strategy, and you should see great enhancement in their sound (from pcdp headphone jacks and such) starting from as low as a Porta Corda.

By the same token, I wonder if those who say that Senns sound the best when paired with tube amps are screwing themselves over, because tube amps usually don't even have a low output impedance, not to mention *zero*...

Exceptions are the ones with output transformers, right? Does that include the MG Head DT and the RKV? (Especially the RKV--very important question as this is the amp that Kelly loves so much with his HD600--right?)

Quote:

Now then, I read this differently... I (hope I) read this as Kelly meant it, that for the most part Sennheiser owners (including myself) use lesser amplification than others

What does this mean? That Team Grado and Team AKG have better amps than Team Sennheiser?

 

[Duncan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs What does this mean? That Team Grado and Team AKG have better amps than Team Sennheiser?

It means that team Senn needs higher quality - higher GAIN amps on the most part (apart from the K1000)... heck, why am I even involved in this?

 

[Audio-Me]

Put it this way, if you get Sennheiser HD600, it's 100% not the cans that need "upgrading", unless you really dislike the signature sound, and it's not an upgrade if you switch headphones, just a change to a different world class one.

Why do companies charge a lot more for an amp than it costs to manufacture it? Same reason any other companies do for their products, revenue. Why do Mercedes cars cost so much yet they're total pos? People still buy them. But in the hi-fi world, there are both rip offs and products that are worth paying for. The head-fi trademark makes sense "welcome, sorry about your wallet".