[paaj]

i do understand the idea of standard prices to avoid price wars (look what happens to lcd/plasma screens...) but they could have kept them a bit lower.
and this is a dealer thing, not something we as consumers have to follow. that's capitalism, they want money, we want cheap.

anyway... looks like i'm lucky

 

[BigTony]

It just makes Grado's the 'exclusive' headphone in europe.
Small market share, high price, high profit = happy dealers and keeps the brand 'exclusive'.

BT

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

It makes them less popular because the price is not competitive. They sell less.

 

[G-man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by paaj /img/forum/go_quote.gif i do understand the idea of standard prices to avoid price wars (look what happens to lcd/plasma screens...) but they could have kept them a bit lower. and this is a dealer thing, not something we as consumers have to follow. that's capitalism, they want money, we want cheap. anyway... looks like i'm lucky

i am sorry, but keeping standard prices is not capatalism. you may or may not beleive, it, but the idea of capatalism evolved from some basic economic principles, and trust me, none of them included protectionism. The whole point is to drive down prices. nevermind the fact that grado is not complying with standard ITO rules. there is simple logic:
High prices = loss in competetiveness
which would mean that they would either lower prices, or improve products
as grado refuses to do either, they will remain uncompetetive, so no one will buy them.
Trust me, no one buys grado in europe. ive talked to people who run such shops, they barely sell one month, and that also when they lie and tell them that it is better than a product, when it actually isnt.

 

[metalears]

I just bought an SR225 this week for 240$ (VAT, shipment to my door, everything included) in Turkey

Guess I'm lucky (The US price is 200$ and with shipment, assuming I could buy from US, it would be like 250-260$)

But the other models are not justified as much as SR225. Anyways, they are not twice the US price in Turkey..

Come to Turkey to buy your Grado's fellas

*edit: I converted the prices:
SR60 = 96$
SR80 = 127$
SR125 = 183$
SR225 = 240$
SR325i = 350$
RS2 = 572$
RS1 = 786$
GS1000 = 1144$

 

[G-man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalears /img/forum/go_quote.gif *edit: I converted the prices: SR60 = 96$ SR80 = 127$ SR125 = 183$ SR225 = 240$ SR325i = 350$ RS2 = 572$ RS1 = 786$ GS1000 = 1144$

Thanks a lot for that, as that affectively proves that the high prices are nothing but protectionism. the prices listed are pretty much shpping+ tax (VAT).

 

[MaZa]

For some reason, I think my next holiday trip will be in turkey...

 

[LFC_SL]

On the point of *we earn more money*, the cost of living is also higher

I invite anyone to pay my rent

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif The explanation provided in the interview is so flawed and lack any real-life logic.

Please enlighten us then on clear economics. Seriously, dissect the flaws, provide "real-life" logic and put your money where your mouth is.

Back before the interweb with all its tubes etc...there were these places called STORES. These STORES consisted of walls, concrete, wires, electricity and PEOPLE. Customers would have to walk into such establishments converse with the personel and enter into a contract in person. Exchange of cash/credit for the item desired etc etc.

Grado does not advertise. The only means of advertising for Grado was and still is presence in stores. Be they webfronts or B&M stores. 15 years ago magazine reviews or shelf space was the only means of seeing a Grado. Being a small company, the only way to ensure shelf space in other countries was to negotiate with a distributor who would help get them in stores.

Distributor A negotiates a price with Grado. The deal is done. Distributor A then negotiates a price with Dealers X Y and Z with a set minimum advertised retail price in a given territorty. Done.

If distributor A tries to gain access to Distributor B's territory, sparks fly, so each territory has their own Distributor and dealer network and Grado negotiates entry into that network without stepping on the toes of another territory.

The logic is clear, if items are not stocked, they are not seen, if they are not seen they are not heard. If they are not heard they are not sold and there goes international sales for Grados.

Yes the web changed things. However, we don't know the length of time each contract was for and we also don't know how many headphones are sold online vs. in stores. There is a good chance that store sales far outpace online sales worldwide for Grados. Head-fi is popular for sure, but it is a drop in the buckeet in the high-end market place. We aren't even a blip on most companies' radar.

Oh, but I forgot, there is no "real-life" logic there. Just real logic. My mistake.

For all you folks complaining about Grado, how about EAR-Yoshino gear? My HP4 in Canada? Are you ready? $6500 CAD MSRP. Because it is a special order item, it is hardly ever marked down. One would need to be close with the dealer to get a good price. Cost in UK? 2200. Right...Grado is evil and is doing something no other company does.

Oh btw, EAR is one of the biggest private audio companies in the world and is also one of the most esteemed. They also sell the vast majority of their stuff in person. Not online. That's first hand info from Tim after I spoke with him on the phone.

International items cost more and that sucks. All other headphone companies are INTERNATIONAL corporations with offices in many countries. Grado is singled out here (perhaps only joined by Westone and Etymotic, IEM manufacturers) because they are not an international company and therefore must have a different strategy to stay in the market. I would rather them stay alive than lose their distribution overseas and have them pack up and go under. They almost did, John saved the company and made it stronger than ever.

 

[metalears]

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks a lot for that, as that affectively proves that the high prices are nothing but protectionism. the prices listed are pretty much shpping+ tax (VAT).

You're welcome.. Beside all other European countries, Turkey seems to be the cheapest

I think in my country we're so naive that we don't add unfair profit when selling Grado's

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif For some reason, I think my next holiday trip will be in turkey...

You'll be more than welcome

You might travel the country while I order the cans you want to my house and on your way back home, you can pick them up and fly back home merrily than ever

(What a story I just made up, eh?)

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalears /img/forum/go_quote.gif Come to Turkey to buy your Grado's fellas

Since we talk about Europe here I guess those prices are from a store in the European side of Istanbul...
Cause as we know the rest of Istanbul and Turkey are part of Asia.

Great to see that some distributors/dealers are not that greedy though. Selling Grado for close to US prices..

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please enlighten us then on clear economics. Seriously, dissect the flaws, provide "real-life" logic and put your money where your mouth is. Back before the interweb with all its tubes etc...there were these places called STORES. These STORES consisted of walls, concrete, wires, electricity and PEOPLE. Customers would have to walk into such establishments converse with the personel and enter into a contract in person. Exchange of cash/credit for the item desired etc etc. Grado does not advertise. The only means of advertising for Grado was and still is presence in stores. Be they webfronts or B&M stores. 15 years ago magazine reviews or shelf space was the only means of seeing a Grado. Being a small company, the only way to ensure shelf space in other countries was to negotiate with a distributor who would help get them in stores. Distributor A negotiates a price with Grado. The deal is done. Distributor A then negotiates a price with Dealers X Y and Z with a set minimum advertised retail price in a given territorty. Done. If distributor A tries to gain access to Distributor B's territory, sparks fly, so each territory has their own Distributor and dealer network and Grado negotiates entry into that network without stepping on the toes of another territory. The logic is clear, if items are not stocked, they are not seen, if they are not seen they are not heard. If they are not heard they are not sold and there goes international sales for Grados. Yes the web changed things. However, we don't know the length of time each contract was for and we also don't know how many headphones are sold online vs. in stores. There is a good chance that store sales far outpace online sales worldwide for Grados. Head-fi is popular for sure, but it is a drop in the buckeet in the high-end market place. We aren't even a blip on most companies' radar. Oh, but I forgot, there is no "real-life" logic there. Just real logic. My mistake.

I was pissed and tired when I wrote it and it probaply came harsher than I meant, but my gripe isnt in economics and how dealerships work, but with the ban. They assume that if they unbanned the sales of Grado headphones from US to EU, there would be sudden wave audiophiles buying Grado headphones from USA and distributors wouldnt get any, and I have also got the impression that they might not be able to meet the sudden demand either if this occurs (this gets thrown around too that Grado is small company, I understand that, but then again how large is the headphone audiophile hobby overall?). Perhaps they would get less, but like G-Man mentioned they get very little already as it seems like that Grado barely sells here (do they wish to keep it that way?). But still not everyone is willing to buy overseas but prefer going to shop face to face like you mentioned. Unbanning it might drop the prices a little bit in EU market, but if that happens I doubt that would increase the already supposedly almost-nonexistent EU sale from official distributors much, just the customers who want to buy from shop get a better worth for their money and a headphone that can actually compete something in the same price ranges. Is RS1 worth of 1500US$? This is how I see this, but is my logic flawed? Why is the ban necessary? I still cant see any real-life logic (or real-logic) there.

You mentioned EAR-Yoshino gear, and that is indeed a horrid price increase I admit. But can you buy them directly from UK online?

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif You mentioned EAR-Yoshino gear, and that is indeed also horrid price increase. But can you buy them directly from UK?

Walrus Audio will not ship overseas, Stone Audio apparently got in trouble for doing so from EAR a while ago. I know many in the US won't sell to me because I'm in Canada. The closest EAR dealer to me 5 hours away. I live in a city of about a million people. No one carries EAR.

The problem with all the conjecture regarding Grado is that we don't know how much of their sales are from B&M outfits vs. online retailers. I'm going to wager that B&M stores trump the online outfits by a wide margin. If this is the case, taking the chance of opening up the "territories" by breaking contracts with distributors might prove to be disastrous for Grado. Remember, John Grado for years didn't make any money from the company. He worked long hours, his family living in the same house the company was located. It was tough for them. It took time to build up the brand again, turn a profit, then become successful etc. Why should he worry about what may amount to a few hundred transactions online when he is doing very well with the current system?

John has no aspirations of making Grado into a multinational billion dollar entity. He wants to remain successful, comfortable and happy. He wants to spend time with his children and watch them grow and ideally pass on the family business to them. You remark that "Grados aren't selling in Europe" we know that not to be true. You remark "No one buys them from stores" and we know that not to be true. Think of the PS-1's alone. Germany is if I remember correctly the largest Grado market outside of the US. The distributor having such a solid network and high sales wanted to test out a new studio-grade phone, the PS-1's, if John would make them. 200 or so were ordered up and sold IN GERMANY. About 15 were sold through Todd to Head-fiers. Do you really think that 185 special headphones not even stocked on shelves would sell if Grado was not popular in Europe? Maybe they are not popular in Finland...or in the UK. Perhaps this is true, but they are popular all over the world, evidently in Germany, certainly in North America and definitely in East Asia.

If people really want "Grados" online, they have "Alessandros" as an option which do not differ to such an extent as to be shunned. Sure this means one can't get 80,125, 225, RS-2s or GS-1000s, but the 3 current phones are a decent spread for most. Otherwise the used market is a solid spot, or apparently travelling to Turkey

 

[MaZa]

I was quite certain that this ban thing is quite unique in headphone world and mainly utilised with Grados. You proved me wrong and weakened some supports of my arguments away. Until we can get some numbers or my experiences about how well Grado sells through official distributors, I back down from this argument and apologize. And if Grado really has no wish to make his company bigger but small local company with some international hairbranches, that definetly makes things more difficult for us.


But what about the Turkey? Whats the deal with their prices? If they really are EU distributors they are using, who the hell is leeching in other EU countries? That is still a question I want an answer. A feeling, despite being hardcore fan, that Im being leeched is not what I particularly like.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalears /img/forum/go_quote.gif You'll be more than welcome You might travel the country while I order the cans you want to my house and on your way back home, you can pick them up and fly back home merrily than ever (What a story I just made up, eh?)

I'll remember that!