[bangraman]

It's the formats (the proliferation thereof) that gets me. I've ripped a whole lot of stuff into Apple Lossless, but now that I'll have a Zen Micro or maybe a Carbon, the more important half of the reason of being of a PC music library has stopped supporting lossless... and even if it does, it's not going to be Apple Lossless.


It's partially 'my fault' in that I could have decided to go with a 4G iPod with an iTalk if I needed voice recording... but I've got used to carrying a small player and I'm not willing to give that up. Similarly, I'm not willing to rip twice in different formats... this is for example one of the main reasons that one of the nicest players in terms of hardware on the market (the Sony NW-HD1) has been lent to others as it was just collecting dust on my desk.


I've just backed up and erased all my Apple Lossless rips. A friend of a friend is picking up the Trivista DAC on Saturday. I've dusted off the Cambridge Audio DAC, which sounds perfectly reasonable with 256K MP3's out of the Squeezebox... and it's official. I give up with 'high-end PC audio'.

 

[pbirkett]

So the formats have changed have they? I'm not really into the Apple format scene, I prefer to use Open Source like FLAC, as I dare say support will never diminish. Also, by encoding to one of the lossless formats (I cant speak for the Apple one here though), you can easily transcode into the lossy format of your choice for portable listening (or PC listening too if you chose to).

On the equipment side, you dont say what you have been using soundcard wise, but for your needs I'd imagine a cheap bit perfect card such as a Chaintech into a DAC would clearly be the way forward if you wanted high end sound from a PC.

I dont suppose any of that will change your mind like

Having said that though, I can fully appreciate not wanting to go to the trouble to rip again. I've been meaning to do mine again in Lossless for future transcoding, but its such a boring task that I've been putting it off for a long time.

 

[bangraman]

I abandoned directly PC-based sound some time ago (previous cards: RME HDSP9632, E-Mu 1212M, Terratec Aureon Space 7.1 both modded and standard). What I was using is the Slim Devices Squeezebox (via a wired network from a silenced server) wired to the Musical Fidelity Trivista DAC.


'Easily transcode' is harder or slower than you think. I also experimented with storing FLAC and transcoding on-the-fly to MP3 for portables, but processing speed is not there yet for literally on-the-fly. Perhaps when we get to 5-6ghz then it'll be practical.


I think it's a matter of time. Given a couple of years I'm sure it'll all be a lot more feasible for someone who's not really a geek... My 80-year old uncle can use iTunes and it's a sign of the times, and a sign which will undoubtedly move onwards into home audio. Until then I've decided to stick to a fully portable format (high bitrate MP3) and downgrade my home PC-based audio equipment to suit. So I'm tossing out the Trivista and replacing it with a Cambridge Audio DAC which I had in storage... and that sounds perfectly OK with the Squeezebox pumping out 256K MP3's via coax.

 

[jpelg]

I hear ya, man.

I was looking at the Sony HD1 the other day at CC, and it is a shweeeet player! Smaller than an iPod (and the Mini too, I think) with just as much capacity (20G). Price is high, but you get what you pay for (see: iPod). I'd jump on it, but for one thing: the deal-breaker is the alternate format. Even if I was willing to re-rip my music to ATRAC, where will I be if/when I want to replace the player in the future? Will Sony have abandoned it by then? What do I do with all that ATRAC-ripped music? Too bad, its a slick device. but I refuse to become a slave to managing my PC-based music. I just don't have the time. Computers are supposed to make our lives simpler.

 

[null]

Damn. I thought you were going to post about the punk rock band White Flag.

 

[photographlondon]

Out of interest, what didn't you like about the soundcards such as the Emu? I keep hearing how great they are but part of me is very sceptical...

I've been thinking of getting a second-hand Cambridge of MF DAC, they're quite cheap on Ebay and despite all the hype I have a feeling they are likely to sound better than a soundcard... (I know you don't think so Paul though).

 

[bangraman]

For me, it's more the practicality issue of a PC being the centre of the music system. Noise and interference being the major problems, despite silencing, as well as other aesthetic concers such as I don't want to look at an LCD monitor showing foobar or even iTunes when I'm just sitting in the living room, listening. Then there are other minor but to me important matters such as the lack of simple and fully working (without workarounds) remote controls and other such things.


So I took the approach of locating the music on a server in my home office room (the server is nevertheless silenced, along with my 'left-on' workstations with lots of stuff from QuietPC.com) and putting a Slim Devices Squeezebox in my living room and the bedroom. I use a wired network instead of 802.11b, as I thought that was another uncertainty I could do without. The bedroom Squeezebox goes straight into a cheap mini stereo, but the living room Squeezebox was DAC'd. Since I was using iPods I opted for Apple Lossless as the codec... after much experimentation with FLAC and suchlike.


Perhaps due to the extraction and ripping process, I always felt that something was missing with the DAC'd Squeezebox output, but the Trivista lent a hi-fi sheen to the sound and I couldn't really complain about, especially given the massive convenience that the system gave me.


Until they release an 'audiophile' version as an end-to-end solution (i.e. a reengineering of the ripping process as well) the Squeezebox is to me the best and one of hte most usable ways I've come across of unlocking the music I have in my computers. However I've decided for the reasons I said to compromise, and re-rip everything to a totally portable format. 256K MP3 through the slightly smoothing/smudging (call it what you will) nature of the Cambridge DAC actually makes it quite listenable, and 256K MP3 isn't all that bad in any case. I've got the W2002 'slumming it' on the DAC, and it works for me for now. The entire system is still convenient to use, but I won't be trying to make it into my main listening platform for quite a while until the general technology and usability improves.

 

[sleepkyng]

Quote:

Originally Posted by null Damn. I thought you were going to post about the punk rock band White Flag.

um...black flag?



apple lossless is great... if you have an ipod and aren't a gadgethead (i guess that's no one here!)

 

[triodesteve]

I guess I'm not sure what the problem is. If you go Apple all of the way (yes, I drank the koolaid), the only issue is remote control. An iBook (with an outboard 2.5" HD) running iTunes is quieter than my Sony 777 sacd player. Via USB to a TwinDac plus it also sounds better. Ripping a cd should not make it sound worse than the original, if so, something is wrong.
For traveling you have the iPod (it's too big to carry?)
For remote rooms you use an Airport express. The only issue is remote control of iTunes...a bluetooth enabled Palm and Salling Clicker works within a short range...not ideal for sure...maybe there is a way to expand bluetooth range??

I don't see the hassle with EAC and Flac and slimserver and all the rest..yes it would be nice if Apple would let everyone in on Apple Lossless, but it's certainly not unworkable.
Steve

 

[bangraman]

That's my big problem. I had to move away from the iPod. The Mini is the best compact player I've used to date. BUT, for my uses the battery life is increasingly limited and also I NEED voice recording. I could carry something else, and was considering getting a flash MP3 player to record on but it wouldn't solve the battery problem.


The 20Gb iPod is for me too big/heavy, and as for voice recording when I used to use the iTalk with the 3G iPod, I found I was forgetting to take the iTalk too oten. So the Zen Micro and the Rio Carbon are my 'best' players at the moment.


And that's the main reason that I've had to rewrite my plans, and the things that resulted from this is also what made me think twice about going for a proprietary / limited support (FLAC for example) codec.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triodesteve I guess I'm not sure what the problem is. If you go Apple all of the way (yes, I drank the koolaid), the only issue is remote control. An iBook (with an outboard 2.5" HD) running iTunes is quieter than my Sony 777 sacd player. Via USB to a TwinDac plus it also sounds better. Ripping a cd should not make it sound worse than the original, if so, something is wrong. For traveling you have the iPod (it's too big to carry?) For remote rooms you use an Airport express. The only issue is remote control of iTunes...a bluetooth enabled Palm and Salling Clicker works within a short range...not ideal for sure...maybe there is a way to expand bluetooth range?? I don't see the hassle with EAC and Flac and slimserver and all the rest..yes it would be nice if Apple would let everyone in on Apple Lossless, but it's certainly not unworkable. Steve

How much better does TwinDAC Plus (USB) sound compared to Sony(XA777?). And have you compared the TwinDAC Plus setup to any Lynx cards by any chance?

I also need to decide for my new PC system between Apple Lossless/iTunes and EAC/FLAC/FOOBAR. Some say EAC/Foobar in 24/96 mode sounds better than Apple Lossless but that Foobar 16/44 mode sounds worse?

 

[triodesteve]

>How much better does TwinDAC Plus (USB) sound compared to Sony(XA777?). And have you compared the TwinDAC Plus setup to any Lynx cards by any chance?

Speaking from musical memory, redbook on the ibook/TwinDac is quite a bit better than the Sony was (the first 777)...the best SACD's are probably better than the TwinDac. Keep in mind that I didn't own them at the same time so I'm relying on memory. I did compare the iBook/TwinDac to a VRS system that uses a Lynx card (22 maybe?) The TwinDac was much quieter (electrical noise) and a little mellower. The VRS had a little more sparkle and one listener in the group thought it was more dynamic. It was a short comparison..2 of us preferred the VRS, one the TwinDac. Not monster differences by any stretch.

Steve

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triodesteve >How much better does TwinDAC Plus (USB) sound compared to Sony(XA777?). And have you compared the TwinDAC Plus setup to any Lynx cards by any chance? Speaking from musical memory, redbook on the ibook/TwinDac is quite a bit better than the Sony was (the first 777)...the best SACD's are probably better than the TwinDac. Keep in mind that I didn't own them at the same time so I'm relying on memory. I did compare the iBook/TwinDac to a VRS system that uses a Lynx card (22 maybe?) The TwinDac was much quieter (electrical noise) and a little mellower. The VRS had a little more sparkle and one listener in the group thought it was more dynamic. It was a short comparison..2 of us preferred the VRS, one the TwinDac. Not monster differences by any stretch. Steve

Was it the "Platinum" VRS ($15K) or another model? They do use "modified" Lynx L22 card with what sounds like transformer-coupling add-on by Jack Elliano of Electraprint.

What do you mean by "quieter(electrical noise)"? Do you mean the music has quieter background, etc vs. actual spurious noise like hiss/whirr?

BTW, I would hope both VRS and TwinDAC+ KILL the Sony substantially in redbook, b/c that Sony was simply no good on redbook IME.

 

[triodesteve]

>>Was it the "Platinum" VRS ($15K) or another model? They do use "modified" Lynx L22 card with what sounds like transformer-coupling add-on by Jack Elliano of Electraprint.

Not sure...it is an early model for sure..doesn't look anything like what is on their webste

>> What do you mean by "quieter(electrical noise)"? Do you mean the music has quieter background, etc vs. actual spurious noise like hiss/whirr?

Quiter background..a combination of batteries and being an external dac I would guess. I've never noticed the VRS having any mechanical noises to speak of, and the iBook is even quieter. I did not have my external HD with me at the time..it sits behind my iBook and I never hear it.

>>BTW, I would hope both VRS and TwinDAC+ KILL the Sony substantially in redbook, b/c that Sony was simply no good on redbook IME.

Yeah the Sony seems kind of lifeless in comparison. it may have been built like a tank, but...................

Steve










*

 

[averydonovan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L I also need to decide for my new PC system between Apple Lossless/iTunes and EAC/FLAC/FOOBAR. Some say EAC/Foobar in 24/96 mode sounds better than Apple Lossless but that Foobar 16/44 mode sounds worse?

If you are getting your FLAC files from CD they will be 16b/44KHz anyway and you'd have to upsample them to get to 96KHz, which to me sounds a bit worse than straight 44KHz. I can tell no difference between EAC/FLAC/foobar2000 compared to iTunes/ALAC for my CD rips. foobar2000 does sound a tiny bit better for lossy files since it can put out 24bits, but it's not huge by any means. I started using iTunes again (used it a year ago but stopped) since it is easier to manage my collection with it. It also rips quite fast, I got nearly my whole CD collection ripped to ALAC in 2 days.