[Tano]

for someone entering the hobby, i would tell them to invest 15-20K and buy only open box or used. this would allow them to listen to and buy and sell different gear with a relatively low exit cost.

15-20k to enter the hobby. Seems just right to me. Maybe a bit more, yeah...

 

[chesebert]

for someone entering the hobby, i would tell them to invest 15-20K and buy only open box or used. this would allow them to listen to and buy and sell different gear with a relatively low exit cost.

Should be sufficient if buying used - now is actually a good time given the depressed second hand market.

 

[Strayngs]

have you heard the XTC? if so, how do you rate them?

Yes, I have owned Both the open and closed 1.5. They are better than anything else I have heard in the price range!

 

[kadinh]

Yes, I have owned Both the open and closed 1.5. They are better than anything else I have heard in the price range!

how do they compare with the TOTL headphones?

 

[Strayngs]

how do they compare with the TOTL headphones?

depends on the TOTL and what your preference is. I prefer my Elite and Rognir….but I would take the sound of the XTC in a second over something like a LCD5 or a more neutral tuning like that. It doesnt have quite the detail or stage as a lot of TOTL, but the mid bass is second to none in the XTC.

 

[chrisnyc75]

Arya or Clear. You can get better, no doubt, but you will pay exponentially more for any material improvement on either of these.

 

[k273]

Easier to find the sweet Spot in IEM’s.

How much is the sweet spot for IEMs, and what are few examples of those IEMs?

 

[tabness]

lol a few hundred dollars max

pick a "mid fi" headphone with your tuning/spatiality preference that is low impedance/high sensitivity and run it off your phone

you can later audition the high end stuff and see if it really makes sense to buy or if it is just another flavor at a higher price

 

[DaniXFI]

for someone entering the hobby, i would tell them to invest 15-20K and buy only open box or used. this would allow them to listen to and buy and sell different gear with a relatively low exit cost.

 

[catscratch]

lol a few hundred dollars max

pick a "mid fi" headphone with your tuning/spatiality preference that is low impedance/high sensitivity and run it off your phone

you can later audition the high end stuff and see if it really makes sense to buy or if it is just another flavor at a higher price

Basically this. There is a lot of really good cheap stuff out there today, and something like an HD6XX with a simple Schiit stack or some other decent budget gear, or maybe a basic audio interface, is all you need. Beyond that the differences are small enough that in a dbt most people can't hear them.

You also have less correlation between price and performance than you'd think. There is some, but most audiophiles assume that more expensive = better, and that's just not the case most of the time.

In the $1k range, diminishing returns hit hard, and you also have a lot of crap gear that fails to outperform an HD650.

In summit-fi-land, where systems cost many thousands, diminishing returns hit even harder, and you still have a ton of crap gear that fails to outperform an HD650.

But from time to time, you will encounter something expensive that's worth it and essentially breaks the rule of diminishing returns. However given differences in preference, HRTFs and all that nerdy stuff, what that system will be will vary for everyone. You kinda have to listen for yourself and decide, and when you hear it, you'll know.

TL;DR good sound can be had for just about any price, and bad sound can also be had for any price.

 

[Thomasr]

There is a lot of really good cheap stuff out there today, and something like an HD6XX with a simple Schiit stack or some other decent budget gear, or maybe a basic audio interface, is all you need.

In the $1k range, diminishing returns hit hard

I feel like my mid-fi gear gets me 90% of the way (or more) toward my ideal listening experience. I'm hearing nuance and details in songs I've never heard before on any of the listening gear I've had access to (some of which is/was admittedly substandard).

When I started this thread, I was contemplating a move upstream - for example the Arya Stealth looks like a solid pick with great reviews, but it's like 2 or 3 times the price of anything else currently in my stable.

 

[chesebert]

I've only gotten deeper into the headphone scene relatively recently, but I've seen posts where people talk about pinnacle-fi gear well under $1000 in years gone by.

It's a different world today, but the law of diminishing returns is as relevant as ever. In your opinion, where is the sweet spot right now? What are some examples of full-size headphones that you believe deliver most of the magic while still keeping costs reasonable?

You can still piece together yesteryear pinnacle-fi gear for very reasonable price:
HD600/HD650
Dynahi/Beta 22 - $500-1500
Sonic Frontier SFD-1 or 2 - $1000-2000/ML360S/Wadia 27 or equivalent dac for $1500-3000
We only had Slim Devices Transporter as streamer back in the days so you will have to improvise there.

 

[drummerman1]

Sweet spot? I extensively listened to Utopias and was utterly disappointed. I guess for so much cash I expected something amazing but what I got was merely very good. I was however amazed at a much cheaper but still expensive pair of Meze Lyric's in direct comparison and immediately thereafter. I still hugely enjoy to listen to my humble selection of cheap HP's and cheap Amp/DAC and find it amazing that so much good sound is available for so little ... . I am amazed however at some HP prices these days and can't help think it's now a viable audio industry with enough punters to have ego appeal. No different to other Hifi then ... .

So what is the sweet spot?

I have absolutely no idea.

 

[HWB3]

The sweet spot is what you are comfortable spending. As I posted here before I like to keep my spending on audio purchases under $500. I went a bit above that for my RS2x's and I enjoy them very much. I was a bit reluctant to do it but I'm glad that I did.

 

[HiFiWar]

how do they compare with the TOTL headphones?

I had the V1s and they were excellent

I feel like my mid-fi gear gets me 90% of the way (or more) toward my ideal listening experience. I'm hearing nuance and details in songs I've never heard before on any of the listening gear I've had access to (some of which is/was admittedly substandard).

When I started this thread, I was contemplating a move upstream - for example the Arya Stealth looks like a solid pick with great reviews, but it's like 2 or 3 times the price of anything else currently in my stable.

The Arya is excellent - almost everything Hifiman makes is really good. What is your current setup and what do you consider to be an upgrade?

Sweet spot? I extensively listened to Utopias and was utterly disappointed. I guess for so much cash I expected something amazing but what I got was merely very good. I was however amazed at a much cheaper but still expensive pair of Meze Lyric's in direct comparison and immediately thereafter. I still hugely enjoy to listen to my humble selection of cheap HP's and cheap Amp/DAC and find it amazing that so much good sound is available for so little ... . I am amazed however at some HP prices these days and can't help think it's now a viable audio industry with enough punters to have ego appeal. No different to other Hifi then ... .

So what is the sweet spot?

I have absolutely no idea.

I also was a bit disappointed in the Utopias when I had them, but it depends on the version since the original came out in what...2018 or so. They don't have a fun tuning, just highly accurate. If you want fun, the Lyic or the Rosson RAD-O or the XTC are better options - heck, there's a ton of more fun options.