[Radio_head]

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[wuwhere]

Silver plated copper?
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/250436/silver-plated-copper-wire-how-good

 

[Draygonn]

From what I understand of sennheiser you need to bring out the highs and improve clarity not diminish it.

You are thinking of the HD650s. The HD800s are a different animal, they have highs and clarity in spades. Taming the treble peak is usually the first order of business. Some use tubes, some use cables, some use a felt mod created by Anaxilus.

 

[obobskivich]

I'm not even convinced 'S-Logic' is something that actually exists (i.e. has substantiated backing).  Is there a white paper at the very least on it, or is it more like calling a headphone 'HD'?  Every Ultrasone I've heard has been a huge, steaming pile of crap regardless of price.

Multiple actually - some have been submitted to AES conferences. S-LOGIC specifically refers to their off-set driver placement and the baffle-board that makes that possible (and the weird porting that goes into it). I'm not 100% on the difference between S-LOGIC (e.g. PRO750, Edition 7, HFI-2400, etc) and S-LOGIC Plus (e.g. PRO2900, Edition 9, Edition 10, etc) but I believe it has to do with how the porting/venting on that baffle is laid out, more than the driver being offset (on all S-LOGIC Plus headphones, that "pie shape" port exists, I have not seen that on non-Plus designs, but I cannot say that I've disassembled every Ultrasone model ever made). It's nothing like the "HD marketing craze" or any other code-speak.

But yes, S-LOGIC is actually based on ITU standardized measurements/research and they (Ultrasone and Koenig) hold multiple patents to protect their development. That doesn't mean it's the best design ever, but it is very much a real (and physical) thing.

I think this is a case in point. The other guy who loved Ultrasone (he owned the PRO 750s) described the same thing, more or less -- the "out of head" presentation. The original big thread I remember was titled "There's something about Ultrasone" and I remember all their models were very polarising. Maybe what has condemned the ED10s is that they suit perfectly a small handful of people, the rest of us simply find them to sound awful. That's nothing to do with Head-Fi, it's simply that the obvious fact that headphones that sound good to a larger number of people are going to be more popular. 

Polarizing & passionate opinions all around.
These must be high-end headphones!

However, as both of these guys have pointed out (somewhat humorously), S-LOGIC doesn't "fit" everyone perfectly. And recently Koenig has come out and tested that too, and found that S-LOGIC has a higher incidence of polarized user opinions than does a normal dynamic headphone layout. All based on ear-shape (so unless you're willing to go under the knife, it's pretty much up to your genes as to whether or not Ultrasone will work for you).

IMHO, S-LOGIC and S-LOGIC Plus work as advertised (and I think Plus does somewhat improve things somewhat, but I don't think S-LOGIC is somehow lightyears better than Sony Auranomic or the various clones thereof (I don't think Sony has patent protection on Auranomic beyond the trademarked name) - but it's certainly better than your run of the mill "driver flat over the ear" design), but my biggest issue is the QA/inconsistency of Ultrasone's manufacturing. There is not a single Ultrasone model that I have not heard at least one or two people complain about DOA parts on (except maybe the 650 20th Anniversary, mostly because nobody seems to own one) - including the Edition models. And that really kills what should otherwise be a great headphone manufacturer.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Is there anybody out there who actually LIKES the ed 10s?  I also want a pair of hd800s but i can't imagine them being any better than the ed 10s and i'm a little concerned about the veil.

 
I like the Edition 10, yes.
 
It is, however, a very flawed headphone, and it's something I wouldn't recommend others buy, especially given Ultrasone's poor QC. The price---not to mention pomp and circumstance vibe---just compounds the problems and takes them to a whole new level.
 
However I do wonder just how much variability there is between units, as mine simply doesn't sound that bad to me (like I really don't comprehend the "iBuds are even better" comments). I've owned several Edition 8s over the years, and they have all varied quite a bit from one to another. I also suspect a lot of folks haven't listened to a pair themselves and are simply parroting a few well known reviewers, trashing it just to come off like they're in-the-know, hoping to get e-props and butt pats from their fellow head-fiers.
 
I don't even bother plugging it into an external amp. I simply run it out of my notebook or DAP when I'm in the mood for it. IMO Ultrasone's products aren't really conducive to audiophile fawning, paradoxically making the most sense when you treat them like really fancy, casual listening devices (which itself makes little sense; but that's Ultrasone for you).
 
As for the HD800, I don't know what you mean by veil. It's certainly not veiled. Compared to the Ed. 10 the HD800 is by far the superior headphone in pretty much every respect I care to think of, including overall tonality and FR balance. What I do like most about the Ed. 10 is that it has an uncanny ability to render sound in a tactile and very "present" way. It scores rather high for a dynamic headphone on the thereness-scale. Overall presentation and soundstage dimensions go to the HD800 however. Oh, and the HD800 does require some attention to component matching. It's a fussy headphone in my opinion, and one wonders just how many of its detractors have actually listened to the fullness of its capabilities. The payoff is quite nice however.

 

[googleli]

I had the ED10, and it was actually my first pair of full-sized phone since I grew up... Liked it with male vocal and classical, bought a great amp and good source gear for it, changed the earpads, and defended it rigorously on Head-fi.
 
Then I got the LCD2 and sold it.

 

[wink]

Quote:

Then I got the LCD2 and sold the ED10.

Fixed.
Smart move........

 

[Rawdawg3234]

I like the Edition 10, yes.

It is, however, a very flawed headphone, and it's something I wouldn't recommend others buy, especially given Ultrasone's poor QC. The price---not to mention pomp and circumstance vibe---just compounds the problems and takes them to a whole new level.

However I do wonder just how much variability there is between units, as mine simply doesn't sound that bad to me (like I really don't comprehend the "iBuds are even better" comments). I've owned several Edition 8s over the years, and they have all varied quite a bit from one to another. I also suspect a lot of folks haven't listened to a pair themselves and are simply parroting a few well known reviewers, trashing it just to come off like they're in-the-know, hoping to get e-props and butt pats from their fellow head-fiers.

I don't even bother plugging it into an external amp. I simply run it out of my notebook or DAP when I'm in the mood for it. IMO Ultrasone's products aren't really conducive to audiophile fawning, paradoxically making the most sense when you treat them like really fancy, casual listening devices (which itself makes little sense; but that's Ultrasone for you).

As for the HD800, I don't know what you mean by veil. It's certainly not veiled. Compared to the Ed. 10 the HD800 is by far the superior headphone in pretty much every respect I care to think of, including overall tonality and FR balance. What I do like most about the Ed. 10 is that it has an uncanny ability to render sound in a tactile and very "present" way. It scores rather high for a dynamic headphone on the thereness-scale. Overall presentation and soundstage dimensions go to the HD800 however. Oh, and the HD800 does require some attention to component matching. It's a fussy headphone in my opinion, and one wonders just how many of its detractors have actually listened to the fullness of its capabilities. The payoff is quite nice however.

Can you take a look at my rig and tell me if you think it's a good match for the hd800s. Those are the headphones I've been wanting since I started putting my setup together.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Can you take a look at my rig and tell me if you think it's a good match for the hd800s. Those are the headphones I've been wanting since I started putting my setup together.

 
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the WA6SE or HP-P1. I'm sure there's info on those pairing on the forums if you search however. Especially the Woo, since those are popular amps.
 
The best pairing I've heard with the HD800 is the new Cavalli Liquid Glass. For my current rig however I use the Zana Deux SE paired with the DAC-1000, which I like quite a bit. The SPL Phonitor isn't bad either. I even liked the HD800 on the Leckerton UHA-6S, which is a $300 portable amp. You don't need to spend a lot necessarily.

 

[MorbidToaster]

Side bar. Are you going to be getting a Liquid Glass?
 
Quote:

 
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the WA6SE or HP-P1. I'm sure there's info on those pairing on the forums if you search however. Especially the Woo, since those are popular amps.
 
The best pairing I've heard with the HD800 is the new Cavalli Liquid Glass. For my current rig however I use the Zana Deux SE paired with the DAC-1000, which I like quite a bit. The SPL Phonitor isn't bad either. I even liked the HD800 on the Leckerton UHA-6S, which is a $300 portable amp. You don't need to spend a lot necessarily.

 

[Rawdawg3234]

Quote:

 
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with the WA6SE or HP-P1. I'm sure there's info on those pairing on the forums if you search however. Especially the Woo, since those are popular amps.
 
The best pairing I've heard with the HD800 is the new Cavalli Liquid Glass. For my current rig however I use the Zana Deux SE paired with the DAC-1000, which I like quite a bit. The SPL Phonitor isn't bad either. I even liked the HD800 on the Leckerton UHA-6S, which is a $300 portable amp. You don't need to spend a lot necessarily.

I've already done all my research on woo audio and am sure the hd800s will match up very well. I was just interested in your opinion is all. I will be looking into the liquid glass.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Side bar. Are you going to be getting a Liquid Glass?
 

 
It would definitely be at the top of my list of considerations---along with the Balancing Act, Manley 300B, and DNA Stratus--- if I weren't focusing on 'stats primarily these days. I will however be getting the Liquid Lightning and the Electra most likely.

 

[MorbidToaster]

Did you order an LL because they just sold out.
 
Next year should be the next run.
 
Quote:

 
It would definitely be at the top of my list of considerations---along with the Balancing Act, Manley 300B, and DNA Stratus--- if I weren't focusing on 'stats primarily these days. I will however be getting the Liquid Lightning and the Electra most likely.

 

[MuppetFace]

Quote:

Did you order an LL because they just sold out.
 

 
I got the very last one.

 

[MorbidToaster]

Awesome! Really glad to hear that.
 
Speaking of which...that damn Alex has been putting me off all week. I'm driving to his house to get mine this afternoon.
 
Quote:

 
I got the very last one.