At least until Knowles or someone else comes up with even smaller drivers.. Technology! Who's to say no way eh?
when will there be universals of the JH13/16 pro quality?
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Gridlinked
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I didn't say it would be at the same level, but I don't doubt that JH13's will blow any universal out of the water.
Though being able to reach a level of performance that, at least for me, gets close enough for half the price is undeniably nice. Not all of us can afford JH13's but we can certainly look for ways to set aside enough to one day afford them.
| Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif you could argue it, but that'd be because you haven't heard jh13s |
I didn't say it would be at the same level, but I don't doubt that JH13's will blow any universal out of the water.
Though being able to reach a level of performance that, at least for me, gets close enough for half the price is undeniably nice. Not all of us can afford JH13's but we can certainly look for ways to set aside enough to one day afford them.
csroc
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Only way to know is to try it... have you?
| Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif you could argue it, but that'd be because you haven't heard jh13s |
Only way to know is to try it... have you?
boomana
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He owns them.
| Originally Posted by csroc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Only way to know is to try it... have you? |
He owns them.
timmyGCSE
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:-/ really? I found the demo unit to be just fine with some foam earplugs attached, I actually considered telling HHA look don't bother with the customs, sell me these at a lower price
and I really didn't find the demo unit mahoosive
| Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think you could do a JH13 style IEM as a universal in any kind of practical way. The demo universals are giant, and amazingly uncomfortable. There's too much to cram into the body to make it realistic. |
:-/ really? I found the demo unit to be just fine with some foam earplugs attached, I actually considered telling HHA look don't bother with the customs, sell me these at a lower price
krmathis
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Hopefully never!
I prefer if vendors like JH Audio and Ultimate Ears continue to put their knowledge, time, research, money, .. into building and improving custom mold IEMs. In addition an universal model would be bigger and stick more out of the ear than a custom mold one. Just check out the universal JH13 Pro.
I prefer if vendors like JH Audio and Ultimate Ears continue to put their knowledge, time, research, money, .. into building and improving custom mold IEMs. In addition an universal model would be bigger and stick more out of the ear than a custom mold one. Just check out the universal JH13 Pro.
Is it an engineering challenge to put six or eight driver in an universal shell and still have all the proper tuning? Sure it is, but it is not impossible. Will six+ drivers made the earpiece larger than any universal in the market? Yes it will, but not more so than a custom if someone spends enough time in designing it. So why won't we have universal IEM that has 6+ drivers in each side?
If you want to mass produce something, you need to ensure you will have enough interest in the market to recover your investment and make a good profit - which means setting up a whole production line with possibility new equipments and skilled workers. In worst case, you might also need a new factory as well. That means you WILL need to meet minimum sale each month so you won't lost money.
Beside sale figure, you are still required to either beat your competitor (in this case, custom maker) in price, quality, or both. In this case, since your competitor can tell the customer that anything that is hand-built one at a time will have higher quality that mass production stuff, plus they are able to provides closer-to-customer / personal / friendlier service, You will have a hard time trying to convince their customer that you have the better quality (and no necessary that you don't have the quality). So all you can do is to make sure your IEM are lower in price. However, given that this is a fairly niche market in the first place, you can't price your products too low since you will not be able to sell a huge quantity of it.
There you have it - it is not because manufacturers can't make it. It is because it makes no financial sense on doing so. The risk is just too great. By keeping a "high end" product its prestige status and exclusivity, you can build a good, very profitable business by servicing only a small wealthy group of customer. Mass production only works when what you want to produce is in great demand. It is just how the business world operates, as simple as that.
If you want to mass produce something, you need to ensure you will have enough interest in the market to recover your investment and make a good profit - which means setting up a whole production line with possibility new equipments and skilled workers. In worst case, you might also need a new factory as well. That means you WILL need to meet minimum sale each month so you won't lost money.
Beside sale figure, you are still required to either beat your competitor (in this case, custom maker) in price, quality, or both. In this case, since your competitor can tell the customer that anything that is hand-built one at a time will have higher quality that mass production stuff, plus they are able to provides closer-to-customer / personal / friendlier service, You will have a hard time trying to convince their customer that you have the better quality (and no necessary that you don't have the quality). So all you can do is to make sure your IEM are lower in price. However, given that this is a fairly niche market in the first place, you can't price your products too low since you will not be able to sell a huge quantity of it.
There you have it - it is not because manufacturers can't make it. It is because it makes no financial sense on doing so. The risk is just too great. By keeping a "high end" product its prestige status and exclusivity, you can build a good, very profitable business by servicing only a small wealthy group of customer. Mass production only works when what you want to produce is in great demand. It is just how the business world operates, as simple as that.
AudioDwebe
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What, exactly, do you mean by "custom tuning"?
| Originally Posted by LintHart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even if they put the same drivers (some how squeeze them in) into a universal casing, IMO i dont think they would sound the same because the care, quality control and custom tuning just cant be replicated in a mass produced product. could you imagine how awkward the sizing of the tips would be if placed on a triple bore shaft? obviously the UE18 and JH16 are the only triple bore iems (to my knowledge) but i have no doubt there will be others that follow. |
What, exactly, do you mean by "custom tuning"?
6BA in universal == discriminates against small ears
nc8000
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With my experience with balancing an ER4 and my home rig I think that on a Protecor a balanced ER4 would reach 80-85% of a balanced JH13 in most categories for about 1/3 of the price. And no, I can't test that as I do not have a converter cable to allow me to try it out.
| Originally Posted by Gridlinked /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't say it would be at the same level, but I don't doubt that JH13's will blow any universal out of the water. Though being able to reach a level of performance that, at least for me, gets close enough for half the price is undeniably nice. Not all of us can afford JH13's but we can certainly look for ways to set aside enough to one day afford them. |
With my experience with balancing an ER4 and my home rig I think that on a Protecor a balanced ER4 would reach 80-85% of a balanced JH13 in most categories for about 1/3 of the price. And no, I can't test that as I do not have a converter cable to allow me to try it out.
LintHart
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Each custom monitor, before construction is finished, is inserted into an ear simulator to make sure it sounds as it should. This is also used for people who are hard of hearing in certain frequencies and they can be tuned accordingly to suit their needs.
This level of care would be lost in a mass produced equivalent
| Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif What, exactly, do you mean by "custom tuning"? |
Each custom monitor, before construction is finished, is inserted into an ear simulator to make sure it sounds as it should. This is also used for people who are hard of hearing in certain frequencies and they can be tuned accordingly to suit their needs.
This level of care would be lost in a mass produced equivalent
Rip N' Burn
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Jays are just about to come out with the x-jays. 4 driver and 4 way crossover universal iem. They use micro BA drivers, so I can imagine it could be possible to cram 6 micro BA drivers in a universal iem.
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I believe it has more to do with adjusting the length of the sound tube. By tuning the phase shift b/w the different drivers using the tube, you can get better soundstage and coherence from the IEM. You can still do the same on universal IEM and I believe UE has a patent on it. Obviously it won't be possible to do it on a personal level.
| Originally Posted by LintHart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Each custom monitor, before construction is finished, is inserted into an ear simulator to make sure it sounds as it should. This is also used for people who are hard of hearing in certain frequencies and they can be tuned accordingly to suit their needs. This level of care would be lost in a mass produced equivalent |
I believe it has more to do with adjusting the length of the sound tube. By tuning the phase shift b/w the different drivers using the tube, you can get better soundstage and coherence from the IEM. You can still do the same on universal IEM and I believe UE has a patent on it. Obviously it won't be possible to do it on a personal level.
FRGus723
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I see the closest thing to this being what Shure did with Sensaphonics. Make custom sleeves to fit over the higher end universal IEM's. Therefore you get the custom seal (not as good as true custom) but you do get the isolation/comfort of a custom in a universal.
Young Spade
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And as you can see from all of the great reviews that the major threads are getting about people getting their universals custom molded (Fisher Hearing, Unique Melody, etc.) that the custom molds are holding their own as being well worth the money spent on them.
| Originally Posted by FRGus723 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see the closest thing to this being what Shure did with Sensaphonics. Make custom sleeves to fit over the higher end universal IEM's. Therefore you get the custom seal (not as good as true custom) but you do get the isolation/comfort of a custom in a universal. |
And as you can see from all of the great reviews that the major threads are getting about people getting their universals custom molded (Fisher Hearing, Unique Melody, etc.) that the custom molds are holding their own as being well worth the money spent on them.
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