[Redcarmoose]

Yes. People buy on emotion and validate the purchase afterwards with reason..

The reason I state that concept is that our paced and our structured buyers seem like they are adding facts up. If the idea of logic trips the emotional trigger, some may still feel the purchase is based on facts.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Yes. People buy on emotion and validate the purchase afterwards with reason..

That sounds like a reaction to buyers remorse?

 

[Someguy353]

It's an extremely long term hobby. When I remember hearing Sennheiser and Koss headphones turned way up on an audiophile grade system in 1975! The hobby can span a lifetime.

It is consumerist spirituality at it's best. The machine has to always be producing new ideas and is proclaiming them as better every time. This does not rule out the fact that there really has never been a better time to find great deals on amazing headphones. It's like a sport with an elite goal of coming out winning. Just like in sports you have grand egos and condescending smerks, even though hidden. You really do have winners and losers at Head-Fi.

The losers are caught on the endless hampster wheel of worthless purchases and never happy. Never truly happy. These members are lost, and believe that the next purchase will be the last. It's like losing in Vegas and using borrowed money to maybe win in the end. In this situation we can guess the ending.

The winners end up making mistakes but take it in stride. They learn about the hobby and end up with a system over the course of years that makes them satisfied. They get into the music and find that instead of buying new headphones and amps, rotate the equipment they own and discover new things for free.

Of course this place keeps the lights on by pushing the hype, still it's patience, luck and conservative purchases within a members family budget which arrives at the true win in the end.

 
Thank you Redcarmoose. I think all you posts are informative and a great guidance. I have not visited this site to reply, due to all those headphone been advertised on the side on those pages always triggered a urge to look about to see what is out there. But you are right that there are no end to this hobby, there are always more out there to see and learn. However one have to take a look at one self and reflect. I have lined all my headphone out and look at them and some have barely any used time, but yet I want to go back to them when I have more time. 
 
I think I have find a way to cure my desire for better sound for a short term anyway by starting to fix and mod a box of broken headphones I got off ebay. I think when I buy a new headphone I always just sit there and enjoy the music, this make me want to get even better headphone to try. However if I can mod headphones, it will allow to to add value to the headphone and give me a more realistic goal to aim for.
 
I want to thank everyone's input into this thread, as it does help me to turn back at this point before I continue into this very costly hobby. I don't think this is the best time for me to continue this hobby of mine.
 
If you guys don't see me reply to this forum, it might be me cutting my self off for a while to just to focus in something else to just to cut out this addiction. =) 

 

[Redcarmoose]

Thank you Redcarmoose. I think all you posts are informative and a great guidance. I have not visited this site to reply, due to all those headphone been advertised on the side on those pages always triggered a urge to look about to see what is out there. But you are right that there are no end to this hobby, there are always more out there to see and learn. However one have to take a look at one self and reflect. I have lined all my headphone out and look at them and some have barely any used time, but yet I want to go back to them when I have more time. 

I think I have find a way to cure my desire for better sound for a short term anyway by starting to fix and mod a box of broken headphones I got off ebay. I think when I buy a new headphone I always just sit there and enjoy the music, this make me want to get even better headphone to try. However if I can mod headphones, it will allow to to add value to the headphone and give me a more realistic goal to aim for.

I want to thank everyone's input into this thread, as it does help me to turn back at this point before I continue into this very costly hobby. I don't think this is the best time for me to continue this hobby of mine.

If you guys don't see me reply to this forum, it might be me cutting my self off for a while to just to focus in something else to just to cut out this addiction. =) 

The cure is simple and easy in many ways. DIY mods is maybe a cheap way.

Still the solution is right in front of all of us. Simply enjoy what you have. It has never been easer. Get a reasonable amp and DAC, find one pair of headphones you really like and simply use them. After a while you start to forget about the sound system and start to get into the music. That's what it's about.

Simply make do.

 

[pageman99]

Yes, interesting thread. 
 
To paraphrase Robin Williams' line about cocaine: "Headphones are God's way of telling you you're making too much money."
 
I'll qualify that by adding, 'if you are lucky'.
 
This IS a long term hobby and it teaches many things. For me, I have learned there is only one standard, and that's the music must sound real. Not easy. My second part of that is much more difficult. When my headphone karma lines up perfectly, the sound moves out of my head and creates a real soundstage with each performer and instrument placed exactly where it belongs in front of me. Not trivial.
 
How do you hit a wall, when that reality effect (I must put in here, no drugs allowed!) is the goal? Simple, you have to realize it's a combination of perfect mood, perfect equipment, and believe it or not perfect electricity coming through that socket. To get that aligned is so difficult you realize it ain't gonna happen every time. It's like perfect sex. It happens. Then you are left with the memory, and what a good memory to carry you through the rest of your life. If you are lucky, it'll happen often enough to be memorable, but not so often to make it pedestrian.
 
So I've solved the 'must buy that' habit by realizing that perfection ain't easy to find and it's a combination of ephemeral, fleeting happenstance. So when I reach a point of satisfaction, I stop. Then I come back years later when technological progress has had a chance to take a large step forward. Then I start again with the research and buying again. [shrugs] Sisyphus ain't got nuthin' on us.
 
I just rebuilt my system while selling off most of my old system. I'm happy... And I'm done... For now.

 

[Hutnicks]

The cure is simple and easy in many ways. DIY mods is maybe a cheap way.

Still the solution is right in front of all of us. Simply enjoy what you have. It has never been easer. Get a reasonable amp and DAC, find one pair of headphones you really like and simply use them. After a while you start to forget about the sound system and start to get into the music. That's what it's about.

Simply make do.

DIY is a terrific way to extend your audio experience. Unfortunately this board (which was pretty much founded on DIY) shows that consumerism has all but snuffed that out. The issue here is that we are constantly told NOT to make do. That we are in fact missing out on some experience which the Mesospheric Fi people are getting. We are in fact inferior human beings if we do not aspire to a 50 thousand dollar headphone and amp combination an will never truly experience the music until we pony up and join the crowd.
 
The HiFi trade itself has mastered fearmongering and inferiority projection in a manner that makes Governments drool with envy

 
I think the next project amp I get into will be named the STASI

 

[gr8soundz]

Was just thinking about this stuff and found this great thread. Here's my 2 cents (apologies if I'm reiterating what others stated):
 
Imo, Head-Fi is a personal journey of trial, error, and learning. We may never find one piece that fits all when it comes to sound and most of us will end up with at least a small collection. No different than owning more than one pair of shoes.
 
Each step can be an improvement but, as another head-fier asked (@Beagle I think): "What are we searching for and how will we know when we find it?" Someone said the real sound but, unless we were at that show or studio during the recording…...
 
I’m still finding my sound but think I've made some good initial choices. I’ve set a personal $5XX limit (until my financial situation changes) for any one piece of equipment (diminished returns increase greatly beyond that imo). Downside is, over time, multiple purchase prices could add up to an end-game equivalent.
 
There will ALWAYS be something new on the horizon but newer isn’t necessarily better. Find the right equipment for you. Price, size, and resale value play roles too but make the most of what you have. Gotta enjoy the music in order to feed your soul. We can do much worse than investing in better sound. Eventually, we may find our perfect, preferred, individual sound and (hopefully) be content.

 

 

[Redcarmoose]

My Dad was a teen father, but when I was 13 he married a 23 year-old gal with an other worldly record collection. So I spent Christmas and summer vacations alone with this loud stereo and record collection. It had The Moody Blues, The Beatles, The Doors along with hundreds of other cool and up-to-date bands. It turned out my step mother was really into music and her profession finally went into music.





The stereo was nothing but really good mid-fi for the day. Big Advent speakers, an ADR turntable and Sansui amp. I just remember it was all about the music. Each album was a journey and a unique experience. The stereo was secondary, as it was just the method to create the music. In hind-sight maybe the speakers were a little boxy. Still none of that mattered because, I simply didn't know what boxy was. I could care less. At this stage in the audiophile game it was the music, this priceless music. The stereo was able to get loud, and sounded better than anything I owned at the time. So in many ways maybe the equipment DID matter but it was a thrill being an upgrade? So it's about where you are from in regards to admiring a system.



Truth was I had time and a lot of ground to cover.



Today much is the same only 41 years has passed. I still have this curiosity. But my equipment is good enough. I primarily use an Asgard, Cambridge Audio DAC and Denon AHD 7000 headphones. The above posts about the attitude in places here are true. It's easy to convince yourself that stuff just is not good enough. We started down the Head-Fi road because the sound was not good enough, and we wanted more.



In reality though we must never forget that the music and time to enjoy it is what is priceless. The stupid equipment is just a set of devices to get from A to B to C.



Yes, the better the sound the more your involved. Still if it's good enough, it really is good enough. And yes, a group of members are experiencing advances, and the advances can be breathtaking. Still you have to wonder how many have just up-scaled to an expensive side-step? it's only breathtaking because it's a new and different signature. Just a stepping stone to another signature, and another and another.

 

[Hutnicks]

A huge amount is in fact simply a side step. At Meso Fi levels you are not getting any better sound you are paying for a different sound. Bob Carver essentially proved that years ago with his amp challenge. You can change any amps sound sig to be indistinguishable from anothers at that level.
 
 Technology changes, perhaps give more resolution these days. Yet the Etymotic ER4 series and Koss ESP 950 still sell.
 
 I don't think we have even touched on the used market where, with headphones in particular there are some awesome bargains to be had for almost nothing. Putting together a "Reference Grade" system can be done incredibly economically if you do not suffer from a stigma against used goods.

 

[mevans]

   
Untrue. The amount of flim-flam with other components is crazy, at that point you're not getting "better" amps and sources, you're just getting one that's colored to your taste. The headphones themselves are 95% of the sound difference, everything else is subtle adjustments and even an HD800 or giant planar can be run perfectly fine out of a modest DAC/amp these days.
 
Is it always worth it to go higher and higher up the price ladder? No. Is it worth it to hunt down the headphone that makes you enjoy the music the most even if it's more expensive? Absolutely. 

Along the same lines, and at the (unintended) risk of offending the community, what if virtually the entire hobby (save headphones themselves) is founded upon myths?  We know from a statement I saw in one of these threads, I think from Sennheiser rep, that there is absolutely nothing to "burn-in," and that the closest thing to it would be the acclimation our ears (brains?) go through as we get accustomed to new phones. 
 
What if the same is true of cables; that is, so long as they are of reasonable quality, none offers an audible difference?  How about amps?  What if so long as the source offers sufficient power with negligible distortion, again no audible difference? 
 
Years ago I used to subscribe to Stereophile magazine.  And, as I recall, its editors consistently eschewed 'double-blind' tests of equipment.  I can't recall their arguments, except for one that contended that reviewers were actually able to provide more accurate analyses of equipment if they were aware of the manufacturer when conducting each test.  This contention always struck me as nonsense.  Are there hobbyists actively engaged in double-blind testing of headphone systems?  If so, I would be curious to learn their results.  For myself, at least for now, I am satisfied to plug my HD700s into the headphone jack of my Adcom preamp (GFP-710).
 
Again, please no one take offense.  I'm new to the forum, hope not to be criticized too sharply, and am merely tossing out food for thought.
 
Mark

 

[pageman99]

Mevans, I have no problem with your statements. Some folks can't tell the difference between cables, amps and dacs. Hell, some claim there is no difference in sources because it's all just 0's and 1's. (I suggest those folks read this guide to ripping http://www.dbpoweramp.com/cd-ripper-setup-guide.htm ) My background is in physics and I hold a patent on electrical energy storage in capacitors. To put it most directly, it ain't that simple. When you copy files there is all sorts of error checking of those 1's and 0's. Last I looked there ain't any error checking inside an amp, or any other piece of equipment in this hobby. And don't start me on filters, digital or otherwise. 
 
There are differences in cables, just look up skin effect. There are differences in amps and dacs, just follow the path of the electrical signal then tell me each is exactly the same. And sources, lol, that's even more obvious.
 
Now it you ask me, I'd say folks may not hear a difference for the same reason some folks wear glasses and others don't. We're all blessed with different capabilities to see. The same goes for hearing. And each person's system has totally different abilities to resolve the sound.
 
Beyond all this, the electrical grid doesn't feed us the same quality electricity at all times. This is easy to hear. Just listen to your favorite track in the middle of the day vs the middle of the night when there is much less electrical usage by your neighbors. And how many of you check to see if the electrical outlets you use are all in phase or not. Yep that makes a difference too, just like having your speakers wired out of phase.
 
Now, I'd be the first to admit my hearing ain't all that great, but it is very experienced and has been exposed to a lot of different equipment over the years and has been well trained from countless hours of critical listening. Believe me when I say there is a difference. It'd be a hell of a lot cheaper if I didn't hear a difference. 8-(
 
Btw, an earlier poster commented on my saying that we should judge a system by how real the sound is by saying w/o being in the recording studio we couldn't tell. Well this is simply wrong. We all have heard an acoustic guitar live. Same for a cello or sax or the human voice. We all know what 'real' sounds like. Unless of course you've only listened to electronic music.

 

[Sophonax]

For me personally, I've never really wanted to have a large collection of headphones. Ideally I'd own just two -- one to use at home, and another more compact, easier-to-drive set for portable use. However, I know for a fact that my addiction to this hobby stems from the thought that there are excellent headphones out there that I haven't heard yet, and that maybe one of those could be "the one" I have been looking for. I'm like Morpheus, spending his life searching for Neo.
 
Most recently, the HD800S has been that headphone for me -- it is the most top-to-bottom complete, most satisfying headphone I have owned to date. Every time I listen to it, for the first time ever, I find myself thinking that this is a headphone I could be happy with for the rest of my life. I think I'm going to try to draw the line here, declare this as my "enough," sell off some extraneous gear, and walk away into the sunset. Maybe it will work. Or maybe I'll be back here in a year looking for something else. I can't really be sure, but I've never enjoyed another headphone as thoroughly as I enjoy the HD800S, so I'm optimistic!
 
Quote:

 
Beyond all this, the electrical grid doesn't feed us the same quality electricity at all times. This is easy to hear. Just listen to your favorite track in the middle of the day vs the middle of the night when there is much less electrical usage by your neighbors.

 
I've always noticed music sounds better at night, but I subscribe to a different theory as to why. I think it's biological, an evolutionary hold-over from a time when humans weren't at the top of the food chain and had to listen carefully for unseen dangers in the night on the African savanna. I suspect our hearing gets more acute in the darker hours, allowing us to hear and appreciate details and nuances that may not be apparent during the daytime.

 

[pageman99]

   
I've always noticed music sounds better at night, but I subscribe to a different theory as to why. I think it's biological, an evolutionary hold-over from a time when humans weren't at the top of the food chain and had to listen carefully for unseen dangers in the night on the African savanna. I suspect our hearing gets more acute in the darker hours, allowing us to hear and appreciate details and nuances that may not be apparent during the daytime.

I like your theory, I just can't make myself believe it. Too many electric lights, too many tv's, too many loud people and too much noise in modern life. 
 
But to address the original poster's point again, I like the fact that at some point most of us will balance budget vs sound and find something satisfying. It just takes a certain amount of time and experience. And that would be different for each of us. For me it's been a lifetime search, but with breaks of as much as 15 years before I start looking again. And as I said earlier, I think technology moves relatively slowly so it's good to take our time. I came back this time because of the availability of orthodynamic headphones and the need to upgrade the rest tof my system to match their abilities.

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
I've always noticed music sounds better at night, but I subscribe to a different theory as to why. I think it's biological, an evolutionary hold-over from a time when humans weren't at the top of the food chain and had to listen carefully for unseen dangers in the night on the African savanna. I suspect our hearing gets more acute in the darker hours, allowing us to hear and appreciate details and nuances that may not be apparent during the daytime.

I think it is because there is less background noise to compete against and our brain will generally be more relaxed and thus able to focus on the music more. I wonder if our hearing is more acute at any time in the day? It sounds plausible, but I'm not sure if there could be any mechanism to facilitate this? Perhaps if the visual circuits are less active the auditory circuits become more prioritized? Who knows, but yes, like most of you I also enjoy music more at night. As an FYI, I bought a set of DT 880s from you about four or five years ago! Good luck stopping at the 800s, this is a lifelong relapse prone addiction brother.

 

[FlyingFungus]

I stopped 2-3 years ago after I got my Denon D2000...but now I've picked up again and I'm not sure why to be honest. I certainly don't need anymore headphones, I just want more haha! I could live with the Denon's until they completely stop working (they're still my favourite headphones) but part of me wants more as a backup to the Denon's. I'm not necessarily looking for something better, I just want more variety I suppose. I really can't even explain it.