[bagwell359]

What does "cartoonish grainy treble" sound like?

There is grainy treble, which most experienced listeners should have come across at some point. Then if there is a lot of it - at the time i wrote my post - cartoonish was the word I chose - I could have gone with ridiculous, disconcerting, or disqualifying. So I'll go with all all four words. To me (the only person I can speak for) Grado headphones have rotten trebles for the most part (also uneven frequency presentation, often poor integration of bass/mid/treble and lack of sub bass). I think an older 325i almost avoided the brightness and graininess once.

60, 80, 125, 225, 325, RS2e (several both i and e models) - are the ones I can remember hearing.

This is a thread for panning headphones. I think I already took care of the Beyer's earlier (or in another thread). I don't like either, plus most AKG's and most AT's, and virtually all closed cans.

 

[Plumbus the Wise]

There is grainy treble, which most experienced listeners should have come across at some point. Then if there is a lot of it - at the time i wrote my post - cartoonish was the word I chose - I could have gone with ridiculous, disconcerting, or disqualifying. So I'll go with all all four words. To me (the only person I can speak for) Grado headphones have rotten trebles for the most part (also uneven frequency presentation, often poor integration of bass/mid/treble and lack of sub bass). I think an older 325i almost avoided the brightness and graininess once.

60, 80, 125, 225, 325, RS2e (several both i and e models) - are the ones I can remember hearing.

This is a thread for panning headphones. I think I already took care of the Beyer's earlier (or in another thread). I don't like either, plus most AKG's and most AT's, and virtually all closed cans.

So what do you consider grainy treble so we know exactly what you mean. Please describe it objectively using which frequencies were boosted/veiled etc.

 

[bagwell359]

So what do you consider grainy treble so we know exactly what you mean. Please describe it objectively using which frequencies were boosted/veiled etc.

Jeez, I threw out my notes from the listening sessions...

Grainy: rough, uneven in terms of frequency response. When it's really bad - like Grados and MD-X00 Mahoganys: something like a long cymbal note doesn't sound like a good headphone with a proper treble (complete image and then evenly fading harmonics). No it will sound like a cymbal but with a bunch of little pin holes in the image, and the harmonics will also sound rough and unnatural.

In 2009 I had to use a SR80e at work, I took it home and it was brutal on several pieces I had too.

Why don't you get some frequency charts for Grados and see for yourself? It's not my fault they are a joke.

 

[Plumbus the Wise]

Jeez, I threw out my notes from the listening sessions...

Grainy: rough, uneven in terms of frequency response. When it's really bad - like Grados and MD-X00 Mahoganys: something like a long cymbal note doesn't sound like a good headphone with a proper treble (complete image and then evenly fading harmonics). No it will sound like a cymbal but with a bunch of little pin holes in the image, and the harmonics will also sound rough and unnatural.

In 2009 I had to use a SR80e at work, I took it home and it was brutal on several pieces I had too.

Why don't you get some frequency charts for Grados and see for yourself? It's not my fault they are a joke.

"No it will sound like a cymbal but with a bunch of little pin holes in the image, and the harmonics will also sound rough and unnatural."

That 'll work for me.

 

[ADUHF]

There is grainy treble, which most experienced listeners should have come across at some point. Then if there is a lot of it - at the time i wrote my post - cartoonish was the word I chose - I could have gone with ridiculous, disconcerting, or disqualifying. So I'll go with all all four words. To me (the only person I can speak for) Grado headphones have rotten trebles for the most part (also uneven frequency presentation, often poor integration of bass/mid/treble and lack of sub bass). I think an older 325i almost avoided the brightness and graininess once.

60, 80, 125, 225, 325, RS2e (several both i and e models) - are the ones I can remember hearing.

This is a thread for panning headphones. I think I already took care of the Beyer's earlier (or in another thread). I don't like either, plus most AKG's and most AT's, and virtually all closed cans.

Is there any HP below $300 that is readily available that you like, baggy?

 

[bagwell359]

Is there any HP below $300 that is readily available that you like?

used Senn HD-600 - probably $150-185 range. New they are around $325ish I think.

 

[ADUHF]

used Senn HD-600 - probably $150-185 range. New they are around $325ish I think.

A fair response to my question. Thank you.

Since many others here are taking issue with the HD 650, and claiming there is much better stuff out there, I wonder what they'd also suggest as an alternative in the same price range (or less) as the HD 6XX?... Maybe the same thing?

"Over-rated" implies to me that there is something better available at the same or lower price point. So what is it?

 

[bagwell359]

A fair response to my question. Thank you.

Since many others here are taking issue with the HD 650, I wonder what they'd also suggest as an alternative in the same price range (or less) as the HD 6xx?... Maybe the same thing?

I don't like the 650 that much, myself, but its not trash. Some of the post 600/650 cans (6*) that Senn have made are quite good, but I don't have a complete grasp of them needed to give advice, besides try them if you can.

 

[ADUHF]

I don't like the 650 that much, myself, but its not trash. Some of the post 600/650 cans (6*) that Senn have made are quite good, but I don't have a complete grasp of them needed to give advice, besides try them if you can.

^ Probably good advice. I have tried one or two of the open Senns over the years. And they didn't seem quite my taste. I should probably revisit them at some point though.

I'm still curious to know what's better than the Senn 600 or 650 in the same or lower price range that is widely and readily available, if you think either one of those is over-rated.

 

[bagwell359]

^ Probably good advice. I have tried one or two of the open Senns over the years. And they didn't seem quite my taste. I should probably revisit them at some point though.

I'm still curious to know what's better than the Senn 600 or 650 in the same or lower price range that is widely and readily available, if you think either one of those is over-rated.

Well I don't have that much experience with cheaper cans. I'm kind of in the high middle and low high bracket. I don't like the HFM 4** series, don't like German cans in the sub $350 range much - there might be an odd AKG that's good but I don't know it. I refuse to have anything to do with IEMs. Now if you want to talk used, things get a bit better if you creep the number up to close to $500.

HE-500 (375-435)
LCD2 (450-550)
HEX v2 (650)
Ananda (? 550)

Yup I'm heavy planar and heavy open.

 

[ADUHF]

Well I don't have that much experience with cheaper cans. I'm kind of in the high middle and low high bracket. I don't like the HFM 4** series, don't like German cans in the sub $350 range much - there might be an odd AKG that's good but I don't know it. I refuse to have anything to do with IEMs. Now if you want to talk used, things get a bit better if you creep the number up to close to $500.

I appreciate the input, bagwell359.

Fwiw, I don't buy used. And $500 is well outside of my price bracket. So suggestions along those lines would be less helpful to me. They might help someone else though.

My question still stands though (for anyone who cares to try answering it). What is better than the Senn 600 or 650 in the same or lower price range that's easily obtainable, if you believe either one is over-rated?

Yup I'm heavy planar and heavy open.

So I see.

 

[ScornDefeat]

A fair response to my question. Thank you.

Since many others here are taking issue with the HD 650, and claiming there is much better stuff out there, I wonder what they'd also suggest as an alternative in the same price range (or less) as the HD 6xx?... Maybe the same thing?

"Over-rated" implies to me that there is something better available at the same or lower price point. So what is it?

It's great at the price and nothing is likely better for 200 bucks.

However, as I noted in my post, many contest It's endgame. I have seen more than my fair share of comments, particularly on other boards, stating that the HD6XX competes with any price, scales tremendously, etc. From my experience, it gets handily beat by various (more expensive) phones that share in its general sound signature but provide more bass quantity, bass impact, speed and resolution.

 

[ADUHF]

It's great at the price and nothing is likely better for 200 bucks.

However, as I noted in my post, many contest It's endgame. I have seen more than my fair share of comments, particularly on other boards, stating that the HD6XX competes with any price, scales tremendously, etc. From my experience, it gets handily beat by various (more expensive) phones that share in its general sound signature but provide more bass quantity, bass impact, speed and resolution.

That's fair, ScornDefeat. But it still doesn't really answer my question.

Maybe there is no answer?

I was just reading some old Head-Fi threads from 2001 back when this forum originally began, and they were recommending pretty much the same at that time. Apparently nothing has changed in the last 19 or so years.

 

[llysender]

That's fair, ScornDefeat. But it still doesn't really answer my question.

Maybe there is no answer?

I was just reading some old Head-Fi threads from 2001 back when this forum originally began, and they were recommending pretty much the same at that time. Apparently nothing has changed in the last 19 or so years.

I would say MSR7 although its a closed back and discontinued but its usually around 130 to 150 new old stock. Otherwise R70X if you really need open back due to the bass and treble extention and especially its bass dynamics, runs circles around the HD600. Although I may be biased as hd600 is $100 more expenisve than r70x at my place but sounds like a all round downgrade.

SRH1440 is another candidate although the bass is tuned DF so it might not be for you, although it has very similar mids the female vocal bias senn style but has much better vocal extention and has all round better dynamics even hd600. Suffers from the same in your head soundstage as the HD600 though, maybe its the cup design that prevents expention maybe?

All in all HD600 is nice if you are playing slower things but there are more capable headphones at around the same price.

 

[ADUHF]

I would say MSR7 although its a closed back and discontinued but its usually around 130 to 150 new old stock. Otherwise R70X if you really need open back due to the bass and treble extention and especially its bass dynamics, runs circles around the HD600. Although I may be biased as hd600 is $100 more expenisve than r70x at my place but sounds like a all round downgrade.

SRH1440 is another candidate although the bass is tuned DF so it might not be for you, although it has very similar mids the female vocal bias senn style but has much better vocal extention and has all round better dynamics even hd600. Suffers from the same in your head soundstage as the HD600 though, maybe its the cup design that prevents expention maybe?

All in all HD600 is nice if you are playing slower things but there are more capable headphones at around the same price.

Some interesting ideas, llysender. Thank you.

The AudioTechnica R70x looks like it could potentially be a good alternative. I would probably have to pass though on the Shure 1440 based on Tyll's plot. As it looks quite strident in the upper midrange, and not as well extended in the bass as some Senns, like the 58x. I looked at Tyll's plot of the MSR7 as well. And it also looks a bit forward in areas of the upper midrange. Though different than the Shure 1440. And better extended in the bass. So that might be a little better fit for my ears.

If anything, I tend to like headphones which are a little on the warmer and bassier side of neutral, rather than on the brighter side. But that's just my personal taste.

Anyone else have any ideas on this?