[Dankeschön]

Toslink has higher jitter values than any other transmission method.

Sorry that my English understanding is not perfect.

Can you elaborate what you mean?

 

[TheR0v3r]

Another vote for the Neotech 1020. I had been using it for 5 years before switching to the original Shunyata Venom which was on sale due to discontinuation. I paid around $150 I think from cable co. It's an excellent cable if you can still get your hands on a pair but takes absolutely ages to burn in probably because it's massive gauge (20awg I think). It starts off as very dark and bass heavy but that gives way to a sound signature with a slight aura around the midrange - everything seems to glow if you know what I mean. The Neotech by comparison is very lean but just as quick and detailed - I would say slightly too lean compared to the venom.

I guess Shunyata discontinued it because of the very low entry price and high performance. It had vtx silver plated heavy gauge conductors with separated power in a thick cable. They are charging almost $2000 for a similar cable now with cheaper and more expensive price points in the range. You can tell how the original venom did not fit in any way with this product line up.

That bass heavy sound is why I didn’t appreciate it.

You’re making an excellent point about burn in. Would love to try it again based on how you describe the sound

 

[audiobomber]

Sorry that my English understanding is not perfect.

Can you elaborate what you mean?

Toslink has higher jitter values than coax, AES/EBU, I2S or USB.

What Is Jitter?
Technically, playback jitter is the inaccuracy in the timing of the "ticks" of the clock that transfers the samples of digital data into the D/A converter chip.
Toslink optical conversion
Optical conversion adds another layer of buffering on both the transmitting and receiving ends of the S/PDIF interface. This additional layer in itself adds jitter, regardless of whether it is optical or not because of logic buffering. However due to its complexity, the optical interface adds more jitter than a simple logic buffer. For that reason, it has higher jitter/lower performance than a well-designed S/PDIF coax interface.
https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0509/

 

[Whazzzup]

Has anyone ever heard jitter? Never mind from a premium cable like chord Sarum T digital super array, but from a 25 $ no name stock usb?

 

[Dankeschön]

Has anyone ever heard jitter? Never mind from a premium cable like chord Sarum T digital super array, but from a 25 $ no name stock usb?

Only when I'm upgrading to a better cable, whether it's cheaper or more expensive...

You win more details.... Worst digitale cable I've heard was the Profigold Coax... I thought the DAC in my amp was bad, but it was the cable.

Jitter when it's bad, can sound muffled and boring with low sound quality.

The Argon Coax (Hifiklubben) that only cost me 10-17 bucks was way better, the Profigold in its time was in fact more expensive.... 24 or so...

 

[Dankeschön]

Toslink has higher jitter values than coax, AES/EBU, I2S or USB.

What Is Jitter?
Technically, playback jitter is the inaccuracy in the timing of the "ticks" of the clock that transfers the samples of digital data into the D/A converter chip.
Toslink optical conversion
Optical conversion adds another layer of buffering on both the transmitting and receiving ends of the S/PDIF interface. This additional layer in itself adds jitter, regardless of whether it is optical or not because of logic buffering. However due to its complexity, the optical interface adds more jitter than a simple logic buffer. For that reason, it has higher jitter/lower performance than a well-designed S/PDIF coax interface.
https://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0509/

Thanks for the info, great sound in the forest Optical.. but that maybe is due to the way it's built.

I've always learned that Optical is best because it's only light in the signal.

 

[dougms3]

Thanks for the info, great sound in the forest Optical.. but that maybe is due to the way it's built.

I've always learned that Optical is best because it's only light in the signal.

Optical is impervious to external noise injection but as audiobomber said is more prone to jitter.

 

[37mil]

That bass heavy sound is why I didn’t appreciate it.

You’re making an excellent point about burn in. Would love to try it again based on how you describe the sound

I was very disappointed with the dark sound when I first installed it, so much so I wanted to return it but not being in the US and bought on close out, I reckoned the hassle wouldn't be worth it.

I'm so glad I didn't send it back. I ended up putting it on the upstream connection of a hub for a long time before further breaking it in on my dac. I guess it took hundreds of hours at least.

 

[RBRIII]

Just to add my own experience to this thread, I was using the stock USB cable that came with my Motu M4 interface and for some reason even before trying another cable, it never really impressed me and the sound was anemic and analytical/bright to my ears. I understood it was an interface and not a dedicated DAC, even though it had one inside of course. I too believe in quality cables and the sound "difference" they can make besides being rated to handle transmission from point A to B as needed.

I didn't want to spend a lot of money and instead of going for a USB 2.0 cable, I ended up going with a USB 3.0 cable for a better shielded choice for my setup. It's been 3 years now and the Monoprice USB Type-C to USB Type-A 3.1 Gen 2 Cable that I am using has been working wonderfully. From the outset, even before proper burn-in, it sounded more open and full compared to the stock cable. I was also using the integrated headphone output directly on the interface at the time when I could discern the difference (in a positive way) after swapping the cables. I upgraded to a Schiit Magni Heretic headphone amp recently and at this point, with the inclusion of the WORLDS BEST CABLES Mogami 2964 RCA interconnects I have going from the interface to it, my setup has been a pleasure to listen to. YMMV of course but again, just sharing what worked for me.

 

[Tubewin]

Just to add my own experience to this thread, I was using the stock USB cable that came with my Motu M4 interface and for some reason even before trying another cable, it never really impressed me and the sound was anemic and analytical/bright to my ears. I understood it was an interface and not a dedicated DAC, even though it had one inside of course. I too believe in quality cables and the sound "difference" they can make besides being rated to handle transmission from point A to B as needed.

I didn't want to spend a lot of money and instead of going for a USB 2.0 cable, I ended up going with a USB 3.0 cable for a better shielded choice for my setup. It's been 3 years now and the Monoprice USB Type-C to USB Type-A 3.1 Gen 2 Cable that I am using has been working wonderfully. From the outset, even before proper burn-in, it sounded more open and full compared to the stock cable. I was also using the integrated headphone output directly on the interface at the time when I could discern the difference (in a positive way) after swapping the cables. I upgraded to a Schiit Magni Heretic headphone amp recently and at this point, with the inclusion of the WORLDS BEST CABLES Mogami 2964 RCA interconnects I have going from the interface to it, my setup has been a pleasure to listen to. YMMV of course but again, just sharing what worked for me.

I would recommend trying the actual Mogami line and not World's Best Cables. The Mogami gold xlr's are extremely good and compete with much higher boutique xlr's in my opinion. I don't see why their rca's would be any different. I still have a few pairs of World's best "mogami" xlr cables lying around, and they really don't compare to the OEM Mogami gold xlr's.

 

[RBRIII]

I would recommend trying the actual Mogami line and not World's Best Cables. The Mogami gold xlr's are extremely good and compete with much higher boutique xlr's in my opinion. I don't see why their rca's would be any different. I still have a few pairs of World's best "mogami" xlr cables lying around, and they really don't compare to the OEM Mogami gold xlr's.

Good to know, I was actually going to get the OG Mogami's at first but decided on the WBC route at the time. Could you give some listening impressions of how they differ to your ears?

 

[Tubewin]

Good to know, I was actually going to get the OG Mogami's at first but decided on the WBC route at the time. Could you give some listening impressions of how they differ to your ears?

The Mogami Gold xlr sounds lively, tonally vibrant, dynamic, and clearer (lower noise). The WBC's sounded slightly muted and dull in comparison.

I had posted this in a mogami thread, I'll post this here as well:

In my system, the Mogami Gold XLR interconnects sound better than the Moon Audio Silver dragon interconnects. The Silver dragon's currently cost $575.00 while the Mogami gold xlr's cost $104.00 for a pair. From the Holo May to my mcintosh speaker amp or any headphone amp, the Mogami Gold's just sounds more natural, has a lower noise floor, and slightly more tonally vibrant than the Silver Dragons xlr's. I've tried the World's Best Cables xlr's as well, but they don't hold a candle to the Mogami Gold's. I bought the World's best cables thinking they would be the same quality as mogami but cheaper, they are nothing like the original mogami gold cables. It's an xlr I would absolutely recommend to anyone wanting top notch performance at any price... I wish I knew about these sooner.

 

[RBRIII]

The Mogami Gold xlr sounds lively, tonally vibrant, dynamic, and clearer (lower noise). The WBC's sounded slightly muted and dull in comparison.

I had posted this in a mogami thread, I'll post this here as well:

In my system, the Mogami Gold XLR interconnects sound better than the Moon Audio Silver dragon interconnects. The Silver dragon's currently cost $575.00 while the Mogami gold xlr's cost $104.00 for a pair. From the Holo May to my mcintosh speaker amp or any headphone amp, the Mogami Gold's just sounds more natural, has a lower noise floor, and slightly more tonally vibrant than the Silver Dragons xlr's. I've tried the World's Best Cables xlr's as well, but they don't hold a candle to the Mogami Gold's. I bought the World's best cables thinking they would be the same quality as mogami but cheaper, they are nothing like the original mogami gold cables. It's an xlr I would absolutely recommend to anyone wanting top notch performance at any price... I wish I knew about these sooner.

Awesome, thanks for sharing! I will have to give them a try to see how they sound in my setup.

 

[Roasty]

sorry to continue the OT.. anyways, fwiw, mogami gold uses neglex quad 2534 and iirc WBC mogami is using the 2549 cable. I bought the quad 2534 from Ghent, and have a set of 2549 otw from Amazon. for differences, Google mogami 2534 vs 2549.

 

[Tubewin]

sorry to continue the OT.. anyways, fwiw, mogami gold uses neglex quad 2534 and iirc WBC mogami is using the 2549 cable. I bought the quad 2534 from Ghent, and have a set of 2549 otw from Amazon. for differences, Google mogami 2534 vs 2549.

The WBC I have are using mogami 2534 wire and neutrik connectors. Not sure which wires the Mogami gold is made with/from.