What this site has taught me.

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I don't understand is why people won't back up their claims by doing blind listening tests (or if possible, double blind) and post their results. Whether or not you can hear a difference in cables is such an easy thing to demonstrate conclusively, yet nobody does. "I know what I'm hearing. I don't need to prove it to you." is such a common response. But most people also don't understand (or acknowledge) how powerful the placebo effect is. I believe that you hear a difference. But that doesn't mean there is one.

That is a complete load of crap! Screw the "blind" tests, I met with a few head-fi people when I sold them a few amps and got them to listen to a few cables. I like to bring pure silver, silver plated copper, pure copper and maybe some exotic blend to test, and everybody can very easily tell the difference between he cables. Another theory shot to ****.

 

[Shunyata]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetalManCPA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Define a reputable person.

Someone who is not an IDIOT

 

[vcoheda]

it's your money and your system. if something makes an improvement to you, then that is all that matters.

 

[robm321]

People that don't believe that cables affect sound are either in denial or have system that need upgrading.

If they didn't make a difference. I wouldn't have to keep switching my Analysis plus cables from my phono preamp to my CD/SACD when I want to seriously listen to digital even though I do have Van Den Hul's "the first" already connected. The Analysis Plus is sooo much better, and the Van Den Hul which is sooo much better than stock cable...

 

[elrod-tom]

Hmmm...and it took you almost 900 posts to come to that conclusion? Usually when I find posts like this lately, I might find post counts in the high double digits, but usually lower.

Look, as a sort of cable believer, I've heard SOME difference with SOME cables. That said, I happen to think it's the least important link in the chain. Some people believe they make NO difference, and some ALL the difference...and most of us are somewhere in-between. The best advice that I've ever heard was along the lines of "if it sounds good it is good". Folks who believe one way or another should have the respect and good taste to stay out of the faces of the others.

Oh, and as far as new people go, I like to think that they are smart enough to make up their own minds.

Unfortunately, lately we've been innundated with newly joined true believer members from the objectivist school (is that a correspondence school?

) who will not rest until they deliver their message of all that is true and right to any new member who is in danger of listening to the other side of this argument. The cables forum has been overrun by them, and they are starting to pop up in the amp and source forum. How long will it be before they start popping up in the headphone forum as well?

Now, in fairness, I do agree that expectation can play a role. For example, if you expect not to hear a difference, I believe that it's more likely that you will not.

At any rate, I'm rambling on about this because I thought your OP went a bit overboard. We all need to respect the opinion of the other.

 

[Vicomte]

Patrick may have serious mental issues, but you, sir, are an ass.

 

[DanT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree. HOWEVER: "this power cable make a difference that I can hear" that is NOT an opinion. It is a statement of fact that is either true or false, and can be measured. As the famous quote goes: "You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts" (I believe the author is unknown?)

Ok I'll concede that to you. That an audiophile syndrome

This forum is pretty tame compare to what other speaker base site can claim.

At that point the only solution is to rely solely on your experience keep an open mind to try different stuff. If they don't work and end up false. You can relate your experience here or elsewhere but don't be surprise if you find people convince that they are right and your wrong.

At that point I make one or two comment to state my point but beyond that like I said it become repetitive and cyclic because after a while if you haven't convince them you not going to be able to do it with more post.

Most of the time people don't change their mind. If measurement don't convince them(the explaination is you don't measure the right thing and the difference is elsewhere) how can word do.

 

[nikongod]

wafflesound:
i disagree with what you are saying. although i personally believe that cables do make differences, you dont HAVE to get them.

my test cables cost $5 and $10 each. i also have a $15 cable.

you are totally entitled to your own opinions of how gear should sound. what you like may not be what other poeople like, and many people who go "high" tend to strive for similar things, but if you want a certain sound FIND IT and enjoy it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I don't understand is why people won't back up their claims by doing blind listening tests (or if possible, double blind) and post their results.

you do of course know why there are no DBT threads on this forum?

aside from the RULES which prohibit it DBT discussions there is the fact that these topics tend to take on proportions and a tone matched only by religious and political discussions. both of these are also against the rules. head-fi is a fairly stress and fight free place, lets work hard to obey the rules and keep it that way.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif To everyone who thinks high end cables above basic decent quality level stuff makes a difference to the sound. PROVE IT. The burden to prove a claim is on the person making the claim. You try and try again to tell people there is a difference, but yet provide NO evidence. There is many many ways to test this, but you fail to. You don't even provide blind tests. Sorry, but in a hobby that is very closely tied with physics, "just trust me" doesn't cut it.

Why is it that a statement of opinion by one party REQUIRES evidence, including a double blind test? It's one man's opinion, nothing more.

This is how fights get started. Folks who spend their time evaluating cables have invested time and energy that ought to be respected, even if you disagree at the most basic level with what they have to say.

I'll say this again - people are smart enough to make up their own minds.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wafflesomd /img/forum/go_quote.gif This site has taught me to stay far, far away from site's like this.

and your still posting here because???

 

[fatcat28037]

I believe a cable upgrade can improve sound quality. $5 from Radio Shack vs $20 from Headroom, There is a difference, at least to me. Now wether replacing that $20 Interconnect with a $200 one would make a decerniable improvement, I don't know, I haven't tried. If I had to guess I'd say, to my ears, it wouldn't. Understand my ears are old. I guess it boils down to "just how big an improvment does pure copper make". Damned if I know, I just go by my ears, as impaired as they are.

 

[philodox]

Threads like this are such a joke. What is this AA?

If you don't hear a difference in cables, fine. Making a thread like this makes you worse than a raving tweaker like patrick. Even he isn't telling everyone how it is, he just tells it how he hears it. Whether he is serious or not is besides the point.

 

[rumatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif you do of course know why there are no DBT threads on this forum? aside from the RULES which prohibit it DBT discussions

Wow, just wow. I was not aware. I'm in disbelief that calm, rational discussion is about DBT is disallowed. Is that rule requested by the sponsoring cable manufactures?

Quote:

head-fi is a fairly stress and fight free place, lets work hard to obey the rules and keep it that way.

I'm fine with that. But I'd prefer to punish those who can't keep the place stress and fight free, rather than limiting mature discussions of issues very relevant to the theme of this site (religion and politics are different because they are not related to head-f).

But hey, it's not my forum, so it's not my call. I guess I'll just hang out in the classifieds, and do my best to hold onto my wallet.

But hey, it's not my forum. I'll bow out of this discussion. I'll just stick to the classifieds and keep emptying my wallet I guess.

 

[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif Threads like this are such a joke. What is this AA? If you don't hear a difference in cables, fine. Making a thread like this makes you worse than a raving tweaker like patrick. Even he isn't telling everyone how it is, he just tells it how he hears it. Whether he is serious or not is besides the point.

Interesting that Jay pops up now...it was in his presence that I, without question, heard the difference between two cables (silver and copper).

 

[rumatt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why is it that a statement of opinion by one party REQUIRES evidence, including a double blind test? It's one man's opinion, nothing more.

Opinions do not need evidence.

As discussed here, "this power cable make a difference that I can hear" that is not an opinion.