[wafflesomd]

This site has taught me to stay far, far away from site's like this.

I have compiled a list of rediculous claims that run rampant here:

1. Spend a lot on cables, it will change the sound
2. Power cables affect sound.
3. There is no such thing as opinion on sound.
4. You are not allowed to think that cables do not affect sound, because everyone here has already wasted hundreds of dollars on them, and are scared that they don't actually do anything

That all basically sums up into:

Patrick82 has serious mental issues.

I suggest any new members, go out and find a reputable person to discuss audio. One that doesn't rely merely on subjective tests.

 

[goldenratiophi]

What about Brilliant Pebbles and Clever Little Clocks?

 

[wafflesomd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldenratiophi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What about Brilliant Pebbles and Clever Little Clocks?

Are you kidding? Those things actually work!

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wafflesomd /img/forum/go_quote.gif . 4. You are not allowed to think that cables do not affect sound,

You are SO wrong about this. What you stated above is not true at all. I wouldn't use words like "allow," either.

You are completely free to "think" cables do not affect sound. We don't care about that. What IS annoying is that people who think like you simply will NOT leave us alone who do think cables make a difference.

 

[3x331m]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wafflesomd /img/forum/go_quote.gif This site has taught me to stay far, far away from site's like this. I have compiled a list of rediculous claims that run rampant here: 1. Spend a lot on cables, it will change the sound 2. Power cables affect sound. 3. There is no such thing as opinion on sound. 4. You are not allowed to think that cables do not affect sound, because everyone here has already wasted hundreds of dollars on them, and are scared that they don't actually do anything That all basically sums up into: Patrick82 has serious mental issues. I suggest any new members, go out and find a reputable person to discuss audio. One that doesn't rely merely on subjective tests.

You have just insulted a whole bunch of Patrick82 proteges...

 

[rumatt]

What I don't understand is why people won't back up their claims by doing blind listening tests (or if possible, double blind) and post their results.

Whether or not you can hear a difference in cables is such an easy thing to demonstrate conclusively, yet nobody does.

"I know what I'm hearing. I don't need to prove it to you." is such a common response. But most people also don't understand (or acknowledge) how powerful the placebo effect is. I believe that you hear a difference. But that doesn't mean there is one.

 

[Zarathustra19]

Your opinion that cables don't affect sound is your opinion. We are allowed to share our opinions here at head-fi. However, that doesn't mean that you can insult those members who happen to hear a difference in different cables. And there are many "reputable" sources believe that there is a difference between cables as well, not as big a difference as Patrick believes, of course, but they believe there is indeed a difference in the way the sound signal passes through cables made of different materials.

Now, having said all that, I'll reiterate that you are allowed to have your opinion, and I won't try to talk you out of it, since everyone does hear subjectively. But please, in the future, afford us all the same luxury; to have our own opinions on certain aspects of audio. We try to be a cohesive community bent on learning and a shared passion for audio, not a group of people at odds with each other over subjective matters.

 

[Zorander]

Here we go again...

 

[Kirosia]

I recommend just staying away from the cable forum.

 

[MetalManCPA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wafflesomd /img/forum/go_quote.gif This site has taught me to stay far, far away from site's like this. I have compiled a list of rediculous claims that run rampant here: 1. Spend a lot on cables, it will change the sound 2. Power cables affect sound. 3. There is no such thing as opinion on sound. 4. You are not allowed to think that cables do not affect sound, because everyone here has already wasted hundreds of dollars on them, and are scared that they don't actually do anything That all basically sums up into: Patrick82 has serious mental issues. I suggest any new members, go out and find a reputable person to discuss audio. One that doesn't rely merely on subjective tests.

Define a reputable person. Is a reputable person:
One who works in an audio store?
One who writes a 5-page article in an audio magazine with graphs and %'s and other numbers to show the differences?

If you're not smart enough to realize that a subjective test result read in a forum such as this is based on that particular persons hearing ability which differs from your own, and if you take anybody's word as gospel without thoroughly researching on your own from various sources, then you have failed.

This site has taught me to spend money

I spent $$$ on a cable (ALO Cryo Dock) which to my ears makes a difference in the sound, and I don't say that becasue I'm scared. The real issue is your own personal level of satisfaction. I was "happy" with sound through headphones I purchased at Walmart before I found this site. Sure, I'm way happier with my current portable setup and ATH-A900 home cans, but if I had never found this site or learned about the "next level", I'd still be happy (and richer), because the bottom line is the music itself, and not necessarily the perfection of sound.

 

[DanT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumatt /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I don't understand is why people won't back up their claims by doing blind listening tests (or if possible, double blind) and post their results. Whether or not you can hear a difference in cables is such an easy thing to demonstrate conclusively, yet nobody does. "I know what I'm hearing. I don't need to prove it to you." is such a common response. But most people also don't understand (or acknowledge) how powerful the placebo effect is. I believe that you hear a difference. But that doesn't mean there is one.

The reason is that trying to analyze the sound objectively or doing test is very annoying for me I found no pleasure in it.

On the other hand just trying different stuff and go by felling alone is much more enjoyable. I don't like analyzing the whys and what I like even less doing test. I just like some equipment or I don't like it. After a while I have a felling for what my taste should be.

This is a hobby. It's not a job. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I don't care if you think what I say is BS. I have no incisive to justify myself. I just input my opinion. It's an internet forum.

So I since it's a hobby I chose to do thing I like, enjoying music through different equipment without analyzing.

I chose to not do what I don't like namely doing blind test a/b or whatnot.

The only reason to do test is to convince you. I find that internet experience is much more enjoyable when you don't care if other have different opinion and just state your own. When I worry too much and try to convince everyone of the rightness of my opinion it only aggravate the situation since they are always people with different opinion and after a while it become circular and pointless.

This is a hobby I do what I like and don't do what I don't like. Hence I gave up on blind test or fuss too much about what other think since those think then to annoy me and don't add any enjoyment to my experience

 

[Gautama]

I don't think this was the wisest post to make...

 

[LawnGnome]

To everyone who thinks high end cables above basic decent quality level stuff makes a difference to the sound.

PROVE IT.

The burden to prove a claim is on the person making the claim. You try and try again to tell people there is a difference, but yet provide NO evidence.

There is many many ways to test this, but you fail to. You don't even provide blind tests.

Sorry, but in a hobby that is very closely tied with physics, "just trust me" doesn't cut it.

 

[Illah]

To speak about cables, there *is* a grey area.

1. I think that crap cables can *degrade* sound.
2. I do not think that magical $500 cables can actively *improve* sound.

Where is the line drawn? I think once you get to the Monster Cable / Acoustic Research level you're pretty good. If you go DIY you can have the insurance of a fancy cable at the cost of Best Buy cables, complete with effective shielding, solid grounds, solid connectors, high-gauge wires, etc.

As for the root of your statement, I completely agree with you. Any hobbyist forum is the same in that regard. Audiophiles are deluded. Computer freaks are deluded. Car freaks are deluded. And the list goes on...

Everyone has their own personal limit. For me, I reached it some time ago (see sig). Despite what some may say, I think the level I've reached allows me to hear 99% of the fidelity in any recording. All I've bought in the past 22 months is a USB DAC when I got a laptop, and I think that's perfectly reasonable (I even sold old gear to fund the purchase so in some sense I actually profited $20 for the 'upgrade').

Will I be like Patrick82 and drop $30,000 after my system mysteriously 'breaks' because I cleaned my room? Ummmmm....no.

That's not a love of audio, that's an addiction to the rush of owning 'stuff'. Women do the same with shoes, people do the same collecting comic books. It's a temporary thrill that can only be fueled by more purchases...aka 'retail therapy'.

--Illah

 

[rumatt]

> doing test is very annoying for me I found no pleasure in it.

That's an excellent reason to not do it.

> I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

You're not, but some people do... and they do it poorly.

> I find that internet experience is much more enjoyable when
> you don't care if other have different opinion

I agree. HOWEVER: "this power cable make a difference that I can hear" that is NOT an opinion. It is a statement of fact that is either true or false, and can be measured.

As the famous quote goes: "You’re entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts" (I believe the author is unknown?)