[mbd2884]

I think it's humorous that people underestimate someone's ability to make an assessment knowing what they like and what their preferences are to assess a product they have never heard.

It's also very humorous when people get so offended. What's it matter to you if someone has assessed and decided, no that item is not worth the price/performance ratio for them? It's their decision and their assessment. Judging them makes you just as big of an ass as anyone.

I also have assessed, for a price/performance ratio R10 is not worth it, and have never heard them. Have no problems saying so either. We are talking about headphones, using headphone drivers. There is no evidence that the R10 uses technology that is substantially better than even what is in my AD900 to justify a $5000+ price tag. Most of all, like others I know that the price of R10 is dictated by their rarity more so than their performance.

But since it is such a legendary item now, whenever I read someone owns them, I think, damn, lucky person! I'm sure whoever owns them love them to pieces and that's awesome.

 

[indikator]

I do not think so, if R10 performance is not that stellar than no one will justify its price of rarity

now I wonder why Sony do not re-release them at say $1000, make it 'usual' hi-fi headphone at fair price tag, I think they will sell well and profitable

 

[Cool_Torpedo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's humorous that people underestimate someone's ability to make an assessment knowing what they like and what their preferences are to assess a product they have never heard.

Do they have ESP? Just joking. I get your point, sometimes, when reading a comment by someone whose judgment and criteria you know well and share for the most part, it's quite likely that you get an idea of how something will sound to your ears. However it's not the same than listening to the item with your own ears. Nothing can substitute that. You may decide something is not worth your money for a trial, that you're not interested, or that its features aren't appealing to your priorities. But this doesn't mean you might change your mind if you had your own experience listening to it.

All that is a different matter than deciding how overpriced is something. We've been discussing many reasons why the R10 carry those high prices. It's clear that those prices have climbed to sky for the cans not being in production, for the low number of units available, and their exclusivity status which was already determined when they hit the street. But the price hadn't more than doubled (and IMO it's not the same doubling price when something costs 300 bucks than when it costs 3000) if there wasn't a sound performance factor supporting it. Most cans being an statement at their production time haven't increased their prices. I don't think you'll find any Ultrasone Edition 7 or 9 (when it's discontinued which supposedly will happen very soon) being a dime more expensive than its original price. Most are sold way under retail price. IMO only cans having a performance justifying it do see their price increased.

I have to agree with number1 that if performance remains the same and price goes higher, no matter how good it is the initial ratio, it will be decreasing. The argument is irreproachable from a logic point of view. However, being performance a subjective judgment, which varies from individual to individual, and may change with time within the lifetime, for people having not listened to the R10 when launched, that ratio may still be equally high

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have to agree with number1 that if performance remains the same and price goes higher, no matter how good it is the initial ratio, it will be decreasing. The argument is irreproachable from a logic point of view. However, being performance a subjective judgment, which varies from individual to individual, and may change with time within the lifetime, for people having not listened to the R10 when launched, that ratio may still be equally high

I agree, I think this just about sums it up.

 

[purk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think it's humorous that people underestimate someone's ability to make an assessment knowing what they like and what their preferences are to assess a product they have never heard. It's also very humorous when people get so offended. What's it matter to you if someone has assessed and decided, no that item is not worth the price/performance ratio for them? It's their decision and their assessment. Judging them makes you just as big of an ass as anyone. I also have assessed, for a price/performance ratio R10 is not worth it, and have never heard them. Have no problems saying so either. We are talking about headphones, using headphone drivers. There is no evidence that the R10 uses technology that is substantially better than even what is in my AD900 to justify a $5000+ price tag. Most of all, like others I know that the price of R10 is dictated by their rarity more so than their performance. But since it is such a legendary item now, whenever I read someone owns them, I think, damn, lucky person! I'm sure whoever owns them love them to pieces and that's awesome.

Yes, the evidence is in the bio-cellulose diaphragm and a special crafted internal earcups to replicate the soundwave of a concert hall made from a 200 year old tree.

I hope that you will get a chance to hear the R10 one of these days and you might understand why they hardly ever come up for sale. I have declined one offer of $3000 to buy my spare set of drivers and I could use extra cash like everyone else. It is a real stretch for me to own the R10, but I will never sell them.

BTW, with the recent problems that I am having with the HE-90, I could see the R10 as being a more reliable and better headphone than the HE90. It is shame that Sony discontinued their spare drivers!

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif BTW, with the recent problems that I am having with the HE-90, I could see the R10 as being a better headphone. It is shame that Sony discontinued their spare drivers!

Yea, and that is the only reason I may sale the L3000. I am very worried about the driver fail issue. For me, I'm just not cool with spending that type of cash to have them fail eventually. Consider yourself very lucky to have spare drivers.

BTW, what is wrong with the HE-90?

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yea, and that is the only reason I may sale the L3000. I am very worried about the driver fail issue. For me, I'm just not cool with spending that type of cash to have them fail eventually. Consider yourself very lucky to have spare drivers. BTW, what is wrong with the HE-90?

Why would you ever worry about driver replacement on the L3000 when all you have to do to get them replaced is send them to AT Japan?

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would you ever worry about driver replacement on the L3000 when all you have to do to get them replaced is send them to AT Japan?

Because it seems easier said then done. I haven't heard good things about contacting the support people in Japan. Someone just started a thread asking for advice on how to even get in contact them, not to mention their entire website is in Japanese. I'd just feel more comfortable if I had spare drivers myself.

With a $3000 plus purchase it is a bit of a concern for me. If anyone has sent them in for repair easily, I'd love to hear about it as it would put my mind at ease.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, the evidence is in the bio-cellulose diaphragm and a special crafted internal earcups to replicate the soundwave of a concert hall made from a 200 year old tree.

They must have run out of trees and had to discontinue the R10 :[.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cool_Torpedo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most cans being an statement at their production time haven't increased their prices. I don't think you'll find any Ultrasone Edition 7 or 9 (when it's discontinued which supposedly will happen very soon) being a dime more expensive than its original price. Most are sold way under retail price. IMO only cans having a performance justifying it do see their price increased.

I'd be hard-pressed to call the Edition series "statement" headphoness. Ultrasone is rolling them out with as much frequency as their lower headphones. Resale value also depends on how old things compete with new things, and in this sense Edition headphone resale value will be kept low by newer Editions. Sure Edition 9 has less expensive parts than 7, and 8 less expensive than 9, but each successive Edition is technologically superior. A small company like Ultrasone cannot afford to not implement technology when its available to them, Sony can afford not to use the same technology in the R10 in the rest of their headphones.

 

[Skin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Because it seems easier said then done. I haven't heard good things about contacting the support people in Japan. Someone just started a thread asking for advice on how to even get in contact them, not to mention their entire website is in Japanese. I'd just feel more comfortable if I had spare drivers myself. With a $3000 plus purchase it is a bit of a concern for me. If anyone has sent them in for repair easily, I'd love to hear about it as it would put my mind at ease.

im not sure if they still do it but EIFL use to be a hub for getting your L3000s serviced by AT Japan for international buyers. They deal mostly with Stax now but i wouldnt be surprised if they could help you out. I assure you they are very reliable.

If you're really that worried about it send them an email and see if they still do it. If they do send it in and have it rebuilt and you'll end up with a NOS L3000 that should last for a good many years.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd be hard-pressed to call the Edition series "statement" headphoness. Ultrasone is rolling them out with as much frequency as their lower headphones. Resale value also depends on how old things compete with new things, and in this sense Edition headphone resale value will be kept low by newer Editions. Sure Edition 9 has less expensive parts than 7, and 8 less expensive than 9, but each successive Edition is technologically superior. A small company like Ultrasone cannot afford to not implement technology when its available to them, Sony can afford not to use the same technology in the R10 in the rest of their headphones.

That's the difference between a collector's item and a collectible.

A collector's item is something, often high end or scarce, that went out of production and is no longer available.

A collectible is an item designed to mimic a collector's item, usually with artificially low or restricted production and much higher prices because THERE WILL ONLY BE 1,000 MADE AND THEN THEY WILL BREAK THE MOLDS!!!

It's that whole Franklin Mint pitch and why collecting baseball cards and comic books is a dead hobby. At least for newer issues. There are so many commemorative and special editions that the field has become devoid of value and worthless.

And I am beginning to wonder if the same is happening to the headphone market. Put out an uber-expensive pair (marketed at least $1,000 over cost of production), cut supply, gather profits, discontinue. Lather, rinse, repeat.

That's why I won't buy another "high-end" pair. If it's a collector's item, I don't want to be a caretaker or docent. If it's a collectible... well, screw that.

 

[iamoneagain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif im not sure if they still do it but EIFL use to be a hub for getting your L3000s serviced by AT Japan for international buyers. They deal mostly with Stax now but i wouldnt be surprised if they could help you out. I assure you they are very reliable. If you're really that worried about it send them an email and see if they still do it. If they do send it in and have it rebuilt and you'll end up with a NOS L3000 that should last for a good many years.

Also, have there many instances of L3000 driver fail rate? I know there was some issue of distortion that effected a few pairs. Seems owners had no problems sending them back for a quick fix. I would think you can get over 20 years out of your headphones if you take care of them. Even though the L3000 is rare, use it and enjoy it.

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif And I am beginning to wonder if the same is happening to the headphone market. Put out an uber-expensive pair (marketed at least $1,000 over cost of production), cut supply, gather profits, discontinue. Lather, rinse, repeat. That's why I won't buy another "high-end" pair. If it's a collector's item, I don't want to be a caretaker or docent. If it's a collectible... well, screw that.

To their credit, Ultrasone is not marketing their new Edition 8 as limited edition, they're gonna pump them out like Germany pumped out panzer tanks.

 

[Skin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamoneagain /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, have there many instances of L3000 driver fail rate? I know there was some issue of distortion that effected a few pairs. Seems owners had no problems sending them back for a quick fix. I would think you can get over 20 years out of your headphones if you take care of them. Even though the L3000 is rare, use it and enjoy it.

They'll wear out eventually given enough time but if you dont hear any problems chances are there arent any. Simply replacing your drivers would be akin to changing your car engine because you've hit a certain amount of miles.

I think his fear is that when it does actually fail he wont be able to get it fixed so getting it done now is an aversion to a future failure. People can be anal about this stuff, and its certainly understandable. Though as you stated if properly cared for they should last decades and at which time, when they do fail, one would hope that there is something similar or better to move on to. Would seriously suck if 10, 15, 20 years from now what was produced during the last 10 years from today was the best we got.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think his fear is that when it does actually fail he wont be able to get it fixed so getting it done now is an aversion to a future failure. People can be anal about this stuff, and its certainly understandable. Though as you stated if properly cared for they should last decades and at which time, when they do fail, one would hope that there is something similar or better to move on to. Would seriously suck if 10, 15, 20 years from now what was produced during the last 10 years was the best we got.

I'm just cautious of the fact that I don't want to end up with a $3500 lemon, so to speak. If I can send them in for a reliable repair then great. If not, then it is a concern. I will contact EIFL and see if they can still provide those services. If they do, I'll just utilize them as a source if ever needed.

Doesn't matter how well you take care of something, one day it will die. lol