[Armaegis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender Rodriguez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find more and more these days institutions of learning are in the business of passing students rather than educating them.

Most universities are primarily research institutions, not academic ones, since research is where the real money is. That said, I teach engineering courses and each year fail about a third of my 2nd year class and about 10% of my 4th year class.

I once had a guy in my 4th year class raise his hand during the exam... "um, it's 12 inches in a foot right?"... I shook my head and told him that if he couldn't answer that on his own he was going to fail on the spot.

 

[wantmyf1]

I do agree that a lot of parents do over-indulge their kids, though that's no real change from what's been happening for thousands of years. In those cases it's the parents who should be knocked upside the head. Can't really blame the kids. I do congratulate you fenixdown110 for being more thoughtful and mature (and I'm serious here) than many of your peers but not everyone is as well grounded.

We've all taken longer to "get it" over the past few decades than the generations before us as well. Nearly everybody on these boards has stayed at home longer than kids during the industrial revolution. In those years there were 12 year olds who left home and were the main support for their families earning more than their parents and I'm sure they ranted about why the next generation stayed at home until they were 15

. My grandfather moved from home and was logging at 14. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that was a good thing. Just when you look at history you sometimes realize how "behind" your predecessors your generation is. Regarding society: It's frequently only after a societal change has happened or been in place for decades that you can really evaluate it's effect on society. Maybe this delayed maturity will be a disaster but I don't know yet.

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree completely, the views reflected here are age old, and are expressed as concerns for every subsequent generation by adults of the time. You can find quotes from Plato that would resemble some of the comments here. So, while effort should certainly be made to address these problems, I don't buy that things have really changed.

But if you step back and compare this decade to the last couple, you'll notice that parenting and role models are amiss and going down a slippery slope. That's only going to get worse the next time around when children who haven't gotten proper parenting become parents themselves.

 

[wantmyf1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armaegis /img/forum/go_quote.gif I once had a guy in my 4th year class raise his hand during the exam... "um, it's 12 inches in a foot right?"... I shook my head and told him that if he couldn't answer that on his own he was going to fail on the spot.

LOL! I think that was the perfect way to handle that situation!

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wantmyf1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I do agree that a lot of parents do over-indulge their kids, though that's no real change from what's been happening for thousands of years. In those cases it's the parents who should be knocked upside the head. Can't really blame the kids. I do congratulate you fenixdown110 for being more thoughtful and mature (and I'm serious here) than many of your peers but not everyone is as well grounded. We've all taken longer to "get it" over the past few decades than the generations before us as well. Nearly everybody on these boards has stayed at home longer than kids during the industrial revolution. In those years there were 12 year olds who left home and were the main support for their families earning more than their parents and I'm sure they ranted about why the next generation stayed at home until they were 15 . My grandfather moved from home and was logging at 14. Don't get me wrong, I don't think that was a good thing. Just when you look at history you sometimes realize how "behind" your predecessors your generation is. Regarding society: It's frequently only after a societal change has happened or been in place for decades that you can really evaluate it's effect on society. Maybe this delayed maturity will be a disaster but I don't know yet.

We'll just have to see now won't we.

I know in the meanwhile, I'll be raising my own children to be up to speed and responsible adults. Children require more than just money. They need a little TLC.

The one thing I do see amiss is the delegating of allowances. Now-a-days, parents just toss lumps of cash at their kids with no strings attached. I remember having to have earned my allowance. That taught me that only work earns me the right to enjoy the fruits of my labors. I have a friend who's parents did that to him. He spent his parents' money recklessly(still to this day) and hasn't found one respectable job. He hasn't even had one real job ever to speak of. After he graduated from the same college as I did, with one of the easiest but most useless majors(a case of "I told you so"), he sits at home all day playing video games and acting as a parasite. So who do we blame? Some here already said the parents are to blame and I agree, but not completely. It's also up to the individual to wake up and make their own decisions and take responsibility for them. Needless to say, I don't keep this friend very close at all anymore.

 

[HipHopScribe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenixdown110 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if you step back and compare this decade to the last couple, you'll notice that parenting and role models are amiss and going down a slippery slope. That's only going to get worse the next time around when children who haven't gotten proper parenting become parents themselves.

I don't know about that.

 

[colonelkernel8]

This is why I go to engineering school.

 

[Bender Rodriguez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armaegis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most universities are primarily research institutions, not academic ones, since research is where the real money is. That said, I teach engineering courses and each year fail about a third of my 2nd year class and about 10% of my 4th year class. I once had a guy in my 4th year class raise his hand during the exam... "um, it's 12 inches in a foot right?"... I shook my head and told him that if he couldn't answer that on his own he was going to fail on the spot.

The world needs more educators like you.

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HipHopScribe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about that.

Could be regional as well. lol Where I was raised, I noticed that immediately.

 

[wantmyf1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenixdown110 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if you step back and compare this decade to the last couple, you'll notice that parenting and role models are amiss and going down a slippery slope. That's only going to get worse the next time around when children who haven't gotten proper parenting become parents themselves.

Well I grew up quite poor and don't really have any conception of the over-indulgence over the last few decades. Nor do I know what it was like before since I'm not old enough.

As far as role-models there have always been negative role-models. The issue today is not the good or bad of the role-models but the coverage and availability of these individuals to anyone interested. With the internet and even "respected" news agencies veering tabloid there's just more out there than ever before. Don't forget the "evil" role-models of the past either: The Beatles, Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones...Now I'm not a fan of any of them but people (the older generation mostly, btw) were smashing their records during the period they were performing and creating. Now they're widely seen as musical geniuses. Even Mozart was quite the rabble-rouser in his day with a negative reputation. I can't imagine anyone saying that a child shouldn't admire Mozart. We can't apply our current standards to the past. Just because they are admired now, doesn't mean they weren't anti-heroes and loathed by society during their time.

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender Rodriguez /img/forum/go_quote.gif The world needs more educators like you.

Agreed.

 

[fenixdown110]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wantmyf1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I grew up quite poor and don't really have any conception of the over-indulgence over the last few decades. Nor do I know what it was like before since I'm not old enough. As far as role-models there have always been negative role-models. The issue today is not the good or bad of the role-models but the coverage and availability of these individuals to anyone interested. With the internet and even "respected" news agencies veering tabloid there's just more out there than ever before. Don't forget the "evil" role-models of the past either: The Beatles, Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones...Now I'm not a fan of any of them but people (the older generation mostly, btw) were smashing their records during the period they were performing and creating. Now they're widely seen as musical geniuses. Even Mozart was quite the rabble-rouser in his day with a negative reputation. I can't imagine anyone saying that a child shouldn't admire Mozart. We can't apply our current standards to the past. Just because they are admired now, doesn't mean they weren't anti-heroes and loathed by society during their time.

You do have a point there. I guess the problem now is that the evil role models are the parents themselves. At a personal level.

 

[Kirosia]

Quote:

Not saying that there's anything wrong with ranting or that there aren't problems but if I care to remember how I was when I was in high school or 1st year university, I was a jerk*** too. I had a 1.36 (out of 4.0) GPA my 1st year university. I took my English test on "Julius Caeser" without ever having read the play. I smartened up and finished with a 3.6 (not bragging, just wanted to show substantial improvement). I now work in statistics & projections in a children's hospital where my numbers help decide where multi-millions of dollars go

This generation isn't necessarily worse, but it's not great either, at least among the lower-classes. I, like you, did not do well his first years in college, but now have a semester left with a 3.8 GPA. But in my case, it was more insecurity and lack of motivation that held me down, not necessarily ignorance. I see kids now who just won't think for themselves, everything they know is parroted. In my intro to MIS class, most of the students were getting Cs because the professor would word his exam questions in a tricky way. It required you to think, and that's what ruined people. In my ethics class, the professor asks us to elaborate our opinions, and most either say some vague textbook response or go completely off-topic. And there's just so much scapegoating, kids blaming everyone else for their failures.

 

[nylan8301]

IBTL and very interesting points...very sad to see in youth, however...

 

[nealric]

Quote:

You do have a point there. I guess the problem now is that the evil role models are the parents themselves. At a personal level.

There have been bad parents ever since there were parents. I really don't think parenting today is any worse or better today than it was the last generation (or 10 generations before that). Of course, there is no real way to argue the fact, as you can't exactly get objective data on what a "good" parent is.

One thing that certainly HAS changed for the better is that current generations *are* better educated than the ones before them. In 1940, fewer than half the adult population had better than an 8th grade education. In 1870, 20% of the adult population was completely illiterate. By 1970, that number was .06%.

National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) - 120 Years of Literacy