[SergeSE]

Nice research and thank you for sharing. Could you post the models you tested.

iPod classic (2009), iPod Shuffle 4G, iPhone 5C, iPhone 4, iPad mini 2, iPhone 4S, iPhone 6, iPhone 5, iPhone SE, iPhone 5S, iPhone 3G, iPod shuffle 2G

For all intents and purposes, the Apple models before they started using their own branded DAC chips sound the same too. They might measure different, but I've had Apple products all the way back to the Power Mac 8500AV and they have all been audibly transparent.

My measurements show that iPhone 3G and iPod shuffle 2G (before iPhone 4 era) have substantially higher levels of degradation of real music signal. This must lead to lower perceived audio quality for sure.

[merged]

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I figure this thread is the right place for this as I see a lot of folks who’ve measured these things meticulously.
Can anyone tell me if Apple ever made an iPod with more than the usual 1 VRMS?
I own a little xDuoo dap that puts out about 1.5 (although the manufacturer states 2) and it fairs well with all my headphones...it’s just that awful UI that irks me. Then again I am used to the friendly and wholly intuitive UI from iPods, so the contrast is almost overwhelming when you then chug in a 128gb micro sd card filled with mp3 320. It can be a nightmare finding specific albums and artists.
It’d additionally be swell to have an iPod that didn’t need a small amp with fx my planars

 

[Arunabha Lahiri]

Excuse me does anyone here have the new iPad mini. It's pretty inexpensive when compared to the iPhone xs line and have the a12. It has a headphone jack. I was wondering does it compare to the output of the xs Max. Also how is the audio on the iPad pro as it uses a new dongle? Thank you. Do I need any amp to drive moondrop kanas pro iem? I might get a campfire comet instead too. Haven't decided yet. These are pretty entry level iems, does anyone here have experience with these iems? Thank you. .

 

[bigshot]

I’ve found that every Apple product I’ve bought going back over a decade has perfect sound.

 

[turbomustang84]

I still use my 4s for music and had to move to Android because I need a headphone jack .
No other phone is near the sound Quality of my 4s imho

 

[stonesfan129]

I have the iPod Touch 6g 128gb. I compared it to the 1st gen FiiO X1 and 1st gen FiiO X3 I have. I thought both of those sounded better than the iPod Touch. The iPod Touch sounds weird by comparison with the same exact files. Like less detailed. If that means the FiiO players color the sound, then I guess I like colored sound. iPod has perfect sound? Ehh not quite in my opinion.

 

[bigshot]

Apple products are flat and clean. They require amping with some cans to sound their best. If you cans are colored in one direction, they might sound better with a player that is colored in the other direction, but it's unlikely that any players are colored. Differences are usually due to impedance, not response.

When comparing DAPs it's best to do it though line out, not the headphone jack, level match and do a direct A/B switched blind comparison. I'm betting you didn't do that.

Or just look at the measurements. Apple players generally measure as well as standalone audiophile players.

In the final analysis though, it probably doesn't matter what DAP you choose. They all are probably audibly transparent. Better to choose because of features.

 

[stonesfan129]

Apple products are flat and clean. They require amping with some cans to sound their best. If you cans are colored in one direction, they might sound better with a player that is colored in the other direction, but it's unlikely that any players are colored. Differences are usually due to impedance, not response.

When comparing DAPs it's best to do it though line out, not the headphone jack, level match and do a direct A/B switched blind comparison. I'm betting you didn't do that.

Or just look at the measurements. Apple players generally measure as well as standalone audiophile players.

In the final analysis though, it probably doesn't matter what DAP you choose. They all are probably audibly transparent. Better to choose because of features.

How are you supposed to test through line out on an iPod Touch 6G? I thought the USB port just acted as a secondary headphone out. I listened through the headphone out on the iPod and through the line out on the FiiO players. Another thing to add - with the FiiO players, I can just connect them to my PC and sync my music through MusicBee. With iPod, I am having to deal with iTunes and sometimes it has issues syncing songs that the player is capable of playing. iPods are also notoriously expensive for the same amount of storage space. For example, they don't even offer an iPod Touch in 256gb. I can go buy a 200gb card for my FiiO X1 and have a player that costs a fraction of what I'd pay for an iPod Touch with less storage space.

 

[bigshot]

On newer models, you would use the headphone out, but patch both it and the thing you're comparing it to into the same amp with level matching. The object is to avoid impedance differences from affecting the comparison.

 

[stonesfan129]

On newer models, you would use the headphone out, but patch both it and the thing you're comparing it to into the same amp with level matching. The object is to avoid impedance differences from affecting the comparison.

So I have to spend even more money on an amp? So then what is the appeal of the iPod to begin with if it costs twice as much as my FiiO player?

 

[bigshot]

You don't have to buy an amp. You don't even have to do controlled listening tests. But if you're comparing, you want to compare apples to apples. Impedance mismatches affect specific headphones. It isn't an indication that the player itself has lower fidelity. Digital players should all have a level of fidelity beyond the threshold of transparency. One shouldn't sound any better than any other one. If they do, it's likely because you are using headphones that weren't designed to be used with that player. The solution to that is a simple headphone amp. You can get one for as little as $25. Having a headphone amp or two on hand is very handy if you want to do controlled tests. You need to be able to balance the output level.

If you don't bother to apply any controls to your comparisons, your opinions aren't worth much. If you really want to know the truth, you go the extra mile to eliminate bias and perceptual error. It isn't hard and it isn't expensive. It's what we do here at Sound Science.

The appeal of the iPod is features. It's basically an iPhone without the phone. It does a lot more than many other players.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Man, this topic has been beaten like a rented mule - just listen to the dang music!

 

[SergeSE]

A friend of mine offered his still-in-use iPod 5th (Video) for df-measurements. Conclusion: thanks to Wolfson audio chip with relatively high level of waveform degradation iPod 5th (Video) has its own distinctive sound signature (slightly harsh mids, transparent highs). Some music types/genres can benefit from this artifact signature, some other will not. As a result there always be lovers and haters of this player. Starting from iPhone 4 and iPod 6th Gen. Apple uses much more transparent/neutral audio chips from Cirrus Logic.

 

[krismusic]

I recently ditched the Chord Mojo I have been using with my iPhone and have had just as many "wow" moments with my music. Just because the iPhone is so mainstream does not mean it is not a miracle. I think we forget that in our haste to overcomplicate.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I recently ditched the Chord Mojo I have been using with my iPhone and have had just as many "wow" moments with my music. Just because the iPhone is so mainstream does not mean it is not a miracle. I think we forget that in our haste to overcomplicate.

If smart phones and mp3 players already have DACs built in, why run that output through yet another DAC?