[Hitokiri]

Hi

So I think this would make for an interesting topic.

A few years ago, if you wanted to correct some of the flaws, you would get when a DAC is connected directly to a PC, you would either buy a Sonore MicroRendu or UltraRendu. Later came the Uptone EtherRegen.

The second option was to either buy an Uptone or Intona USB isolator, which would decouple the DAC from the PC with galvanic isolation and also regenerate the USB signal.

There were obviously a few much more expensive products on the market and less popular or less expensive ones that weren't "audiophile-grade."

But now we also have a lot of network streamers (SMSL DP5, Volumio, HiFiBerry, etc.) which, contrary to Sonore and Uptone, have more outputs than just USB.

Then we also have digital interfaces (Singxer SU2, Gustard U18, etc.) which allow you to convert the USB signal into other digital outputs (I2S, BNC, AES, etc.). I am not sure if they provide galvanic isolation and if they regenerate the signal.

So, what solution do you guys think provides the best end-result in terms of sound quality? Is Intona still king in terms of raw performance, or has it now been surpassed by streamers and DDC?

 

[Redcarmoose]

Hi

So I think this would make for an interesting topic.

A few years ago, if you wanted to correct some of the flaws, you would get when a DAC is connected directly to a PC, you would either buy a Sonore MicroRendu or UltraRendu. Later came the Uptone EtherRegen.

The second option was to either buy an Uptone or Intona USB isolator, which would decouple the DAC from the PC with galvanic isolation and also regenerate the USB signal.

There were obviously a few much more expensive products on the market and less popular or less expensive ones that weren't "audiophile-grade."

But now we also have a lot of network streamers (SMSL DP5, Volumio, HiFiBerry, etc.) which, contrary to Sonore and Uptone, have more outputs than just USB.

Then we also have digital interfaces (Singxer SU2, Gustard U18, etc.) which allow you to convert the USB signal into other digital outputs (I2S, BNC, AES, etc.). I am not sure if they provide galvanic isolation and if they regenerate the signal.

So, what solution do you guys think provides the best end-result in terms of sound quality? Is Intona still king in terms of raw performance, or has it now been surpassed by streamers and DDC?

Normally I don’t recommend stuff I have never tried, but this makes sense. I normally don’t use a computer.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pi2aes-pro-audio-shield.948380/

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Hi

So I think this would make for an interesting topic.

A few years ago, if you wanted to correct some of the flaws, you would get when a DAC is connected directly to a PC, you would either buy a Sonore MicroRendu or UltraRendu. Later came the Uptone EtherRegen.

The second option was to either buy an Uptone or Intona USB isolator, which would decouple the DAC from the PC with galvanic isolation and also regenerate the USB signal.

There were obviously a few much more expensive products on the market and less popular or less expensive ones that weren't "audiophile-grade."

But now we also have a lot of network streamers (SMSL DP5, Volumio, HiFiBerry, etc.) which, contrary to Sonore and Uptone, have more outputs than just USB.

Then we also have digital interfaces (Singxer SU2, Gustard U18, etc.) which allow you to convert the USB signal into other digital outputs (I2S, BNC, AES, etc.). I am not sure if they provide galvanic isolation and if they regenerate the signal.

So, what solution do you guys think provides the best end-result in terms of sound quality? Is Intona still king in terms of raw performance, or has it now been surpassed by streamers and DDC?

Definitely Streamer. Or, a DAP.

 

[dunring]

Hi

So I think this would make for an interesting topic.

A few years ago, if you wanted to correct some of the flaws, you would get when a DAC is connected directly to a PC, you would either buy a Sonore MicroRendu or UltraRendu. Later came the Uptone EtherRegen.

The second option was to either buy an Uptone or Intona USB isolator, which would decouple the DAC from the PC with galvanic isolation and also regenerate the USB signal.

There were obviously a few much more expensive products on the market and less popular or less expensive ones that weren't "audiophile-grade."

But now we also have a lot of network streamers (SMSL DP5, Volumio, HiFiBerry, etc.) which, contrary to Sonore and Uptone, have more outputs than just USB.

Then we also have digital interfaces (Singxer SU2, Gustard U18, etc.) which allow you to convert the USB signal into other digital outputs (I2S, BNC, AES, etc.). I am not sure if they provide galvanic isolation and if they regenerate the signal.

So, what solution do you guys think provides the best end-result in terms of sound quality? Is Intona still king in terms of raw performance, or has it now been surpassed by streamers and DDC?

The best upgrade I've done in a long time was get the 2 port FebSmart 2 Ports USB 3.0 pci card and put it on a slot that's not shared with anything. All the DACs finally had a totally silent noise floor, so inexpensive too, like 14 beans. I located it at the bottom of the computer far from the video card.

 

[tesarpa]

I believe the future is network attached DAC. In fact a streamer combined with DAC. There are such products already on the market but it will come stronger and cheaper too.

 

[Peti]

Sotm sms-200 ultra with its power supply. It made me fall in love with pcm. Since then I don't care about dsd anymore. Game changer for me.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Its a system (many parts that creates a whole), so anything that influences a part contributes to the whole. And those influences are many (power/electrical, jitter, emi/rfi, as well as latency, synergy etc.).

First problem is on the title: "computer audio". If we are refering to PC, is not an optimal (IMO) device for audio. Since its general purpose, everything is not optimized for audio (OS -> many unwanted processes, components -> issues above, etc.). That is why my Android TV Box (Beelink GT-King) w/ UAPP sounds superior than my i9 PC.

For this we now have dedicated devices for audio play. Be it with players (like DAPs) w/ storage and DAC, servers (w/ storage w/o DAC) or streamers (w/o storage, w/ or w/o DACs).

For issues above and upgrade purposes, I am more inclined for separates :
NAS -> Streamer -> Regenerator/Reclocker -> DAC

A good bang for the back combo is a Android TV Box / RPi Streamer + DDC.
On my case I have right now a Beelink GT-King running UAPP attached to a Singxer SU-6 (soon to be replaced by a Audiobyte Hydra,HUB that will join my Hydra.Vox + ZAP stack). Android TV Box / RPi Streamer a low cost simple device w/ a leaner OS that is readily available. A DDC that will take care for isolation, regeneration, reclock, interface.

Searching right now for a good streamer w/ USB out (as the one above) that will replace my Android TV Box. But will wait how will it turn out with the Hydra.HUB (since its also a network streamer).

 

[Hitokiri]

For issues above and upgrade purposes, I am more inclined for separates :
NAS -> Streamer -> Regenerator/Reclocker -> DAC

On my case I have right now a Beelink GT-King running UAPP attached to a Singxer SU-6 (soon to be replaced by a Audiobyte Hydra,HUB that will join my Hydra.Vox + ZAP stack). Android TV Box / RPi Streamer a low cost simple device w/ a leaner OS that is readily available. A DDC that will take care for isolation, regeneration, reclock, interface.

First of all, a NAS over a desktop computer makes no difference whatsoever. A NAS also has a processor, RAM, etc, and makes a lot of noise. You are not going to get any less noise than from a computer. Probably way more noise actually.

I am not sure I understand the rest well, but I don't think an Android TV Box is really suitable for music. I don't think you can connect a DDC to it and you can't connect a TV Box to an amplifier either. Also, the DAC inside a TV Box will never be as good as a dedicated DAC. Also, there is no option to bypass the built-in DAC of a TV BOX and there are no TV BOXES without built-in DACs either.

No offense, but idk how you come with this stuff.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Look at my example again. I was refering to a Streamer. But since streamers don't have generally a built in storage, hence the network and on my example a NAS for storage. Are you implying that NAS as an audio player? Well on my Synology it could. You can hook up a DAC via its USB port. But with the recent DSM update they turned the feature off.

I am not sure I understand the rest well, but I don't think an Android TV Box is really suitable for music. I don't think you can connect a DDC to it and you can't connect a TV Box to an amplifier either. Also, the DAC inside a TV Box will never be as good as a dedicated DAC. Also, there is no option to bypass the built-in DAC of a TV BOX and there are no TV BOXES without built-in DACs either.

No offense, but idk how you come with this stuff.

And why not? You have DAPs running with Android.
- On DDC...wrong, thru USB using UAPP, Neutron MP, Onkyo HF, HibyMusic etc you can attach a DDC into it....Look at the link of the Singxer SU-6. There the reviewer Hanz was talking about it around 3/4 of the video
- On connecting to amplifier...They have 3.5mm jack or Spdif/Toslink connection (for DACs/Receivers).
- DAC inside TV Box..wait...you are talking "Computer Audio" . Or are you refering PCs w/ built in DACs? I was referring to Android TV Boxes as streamers/transports that connects to a DAC as AN EXAMPLE.
- NO TV boxes with built in DACS? Beelink GT-King Pro, Beelink GT-King X, Zidoo Neo S to name some.

How so?...Doing it for a decade man...

Oh back to Android TV Box w/ DDC x...Mine is running flawlessly for a year now...long before Hans wrote his review of the SU-6 in YT.

This was my player/streamer setup back in early 2016 using the above apps in connecting with my DAC. Didn't had a NAS yet.

I don't know if I get it wrong on explaining (since English is my third language).
Don't imply that I am an advocate of Android TV box. I merely gave it AN EXAMPLE (for streamers) since I am a user (Android for audio) for more than a decade now.
And we're not tallking about RPi based stuffs yet.

 

[Hitokiri]

DAC inside TV Box..wait...you are talking "Computer Audio"

Beeling GT KIng has 2x ESS9018 chips inside for digital to analog conversion. Are you bypassing these by going into your DDC and then into your DAC?

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Thats GT-King Pro. My GT-King has none.
Using it as plain streamer/transport, sending audio signals via USB to DDC for regeneration/reclocking. Hooking my DAC via I2S.
It does not need to be an Android TV box. Any streamer w/ usb out will do. One such alternative that has great reviews is Allo's USBridge Signature Player.

 

[tjl5709]

The best upgrade I've done in a long time was get the 2 port FebSmart 2 Ports USB 3.0 pci card and put it on a slot that's not shared with anything. All the DACs finally had a totally silent noise floor, so inexpensive too, like 14 beans. I located it at the bottom of the computer far from the video card.

I did a similar thing. I installed an Elfidelity AXF-100 ULTRA III USB isolator card to feed my DAC. What I like is it can be powered externally. I have it powered via a linear power supply to isolate it as much as possible from the rest of my media pc. I don't stream as I have an extensive digital audio collection.

 

[silversurfer616]

Going from laptop to dedicated server/streamer was like night and day. Eventually stepping up dac and headphones and there’s no limit.

 

[hakunamakaka]

First of all, a NAS over a desktop computer makes no difference whatsoever. A NAS also has a processor, RAM, etc, and makes a lot of noise. You are not going to get any less noise than from a computer. Probably way more noise actually.

In what ways NAS can impact your digital chain ? It can be noisy as hell, but it stores data over the network usually via smb/nfs/http protocols.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Going from laptop to dedicated server/streamer was like night and day. Eventually stepping up dac and headphones and there’s no limit.

Same. I was blown away once I’ve plugged DDC between my laptop and DAC. Now saving for dedicated streaming.