[gregorio]

You spread your ideas like absolute and non deniable truth which fits all use cases,

What “ideas”?

The only ideas I’ve spread are that there’s a great deal of marketing misinformation, which even amongst the fan boys isn’t controversial is it? And that “I can only assume some people here have some dodgy settings in their computers, a dodgy DAC or are “hearing” some sort of placebo effect.”. The rest of it isn’t “my ideas”, it’s verified and verifiable fact.

however it's not how it works in real world.

So are you saying that commercial recording studios don’t exist in the real world?

G

 

[hakunamakaka]

What “ideas”?

The only ideas I’ve spread are that there’s a great deal of marketing misinformation, which even amongst the fan boys isn’t controversial is it? And that “I can only assume some people here have some dodgy settings in their computers, a dodgy DAC or are “hearing” some sort of placebo effect.”. The rest of it isn’t “my ideas”, it’s verified and verifiable fact.

So are you saying that commercial recording studios don’t exist in the real world?

G

You are advising Topping so marketing works for you as well even if you are against it. I haven’t mentioned studios at all.your lack of social skills leaves me no interest to discuss further

 

[gregorio]

You are advising Topping so marketing works for you as well even if you are against it.

If I remember correctly, I’ve only ever advised Topping once. I’ve advised other DACs more often and it wasn’t based on marketing.

I haven’t mentioned studios at all.

But I have, consistently in this thread and you accused me of spreading “my ideas” and how they are not “real world”!

your lack of social skills leaves me no interest to discuss further

Yep, that often appears to be a problem in the audiophile world. It commonly seems to be a question of who has the better social skills, is more believable or likeable, rather than whether or not they’re actually telling the truth, whether their stated facts are verified/verifiable. That’s probably why there is so much snake oil!

You’re of course perfectly free to only be interested in discussions with, or information from, those who have good social skills, rather than with those who are stating the actual facts but then of course, what you “believe” is very likely to be significantly different from the actual facts.

G

 

[GoldenSound]

If that is the case it should be easy to provide measurements proving this to be true.
I bet you can't.

I provided measurements in this vid and explained how various digital side devices can help:


Even higher end DACs like the Gustard X26 Pro benefit from a cleaner USB source, and can show things like additional ultrasonic noise:

And higher Jitter:

 

[gregorio]

Even higher end DACs like the Gustard X26 Pro benefit from a cleaner USB source, and can show things like additional ultrasonic noise:

And higher Jitter:

Agreed but of course it depends on what you mean by “benefit” and indeed where and when.

Objective measurements of a particular DAC are of course just that, and nothing more. For example, at these low levels (even the higher “Direct to PC” levels), the measurements incidiate no difference in the SQ of the reproduction system in which this DAC was a part, let alone an audible difference.

G

 

[Hitokiri]

So are you saying that commercial recording studios don’t exist in the real world?

Bruh, why so obsessed about recording studios? It's totally different than home audio, they use different gear altogether.

Agreed but of course it depends on what you mean by “benefit” and indeed where and when.

Objective measurements of a particular DAC are of course just that, and nothing more. For example, at these low levels (even the higher “Direct to PC” levels), the measurements incidiate no difference in the SQ of the reproduction system in which this DAC was a part, let alone an audible difference.

G

You are hopeless, mate

 

[gregorio]

Bruh, why so obsessed about recording studios?

What is it that you’re playing/reproducing on your home system?

You are hopeless, mate

Why?

G

 

[Twenty-One Twelve]

Any PC with an Nvidia graphics card with a free HDMI port (or in use if...yada-yada) connected to an AVR. Simple. Economical (comical sounding right now) since the AVR has power amps, headphone amp, preamp control, zones, and a wonderful DAC or two or -- these are far, far better than your noisy room acoustics/speakers/hearing ever was -- and that's just the start. Simple because it's just one box, one cable. All digital from end to end so no problems that need snake oil remedies. And easily PERFECT, like this little picture shows.

https://40th.com/jb/gfx/06_showme3_audioengineanalysis.png

If you snoop around and hit the store link for that, you'll find a video of this audio engine analysis showing a Realtek system that fails miserably where the Nvidia is PERFECT.

 

[Whazzzup]

I gave up on computers and went dedicated music server.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I provided measurements in this vid and explained how various digital side devices can help:


Even higher end DACs like the Gustard X26 Pro benefit from a cleaner USB source, and can show things like additional ultrasonic noise:



And higher Jitter:

Related to the topic
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_Isolator.htm

As to filtering of the USB power, the DAC itself has a regulator and filter of its own. Adding the tiny bit of filtering JitterBug has is like spitting in an ocean and expecting its level to rise.

If you have good MB or PCI-E USB card and DAC with decent async USB receiver, isolators can't add much value, in fact can degrade things.

 

[dougms3]

Related to the topic
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_Isolator.htm


If you have good MB or PCI-E USB card and DAC with decent async USB receiver, isolators can't add much value, in fact can degrade things.

I have the ifi igalvanic which I'd say made a big difference in the sound quality vs plugging in directly to the dac. I don't know the science behind why but I know it sounds better with the igalvanic. I don't like having it in my chain and sometimes it disrupts the data signal where I have to unplug and plug in again. You can show me all the charts in the world stating that I'm wrong and its in my head but I hear what I hear.

The problem is neither the author of that article nor amir, did any listening tests which should be the first test when reviewing audio equipment. I think we all know how biased amir is towards any filtering of anything, he would never admit he was wrong even if he knew he was wrong. Alot of theorizing and speculation but no proof and above all no listening.

Its like reviewing image quality of TVs or monitors and never looking at the screen.

 

[Hitokiri]

Related to the topic
https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_Isolator.htm


If you have good MB or PCI-E USB card and DAC with decent async USB receiver, isolators can't add much value, in fact can degrade things.

PCI-E cards are a thing of the past tbh. It depends what isolator you are comparing it to. Of course, it depends on the DAC you are using for instance the Singxer SDA6 PRO has galvanic isolation and a near perfect USB implementation and a DDC between it and the PC does pretty much nothing.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

PCI-E cards are a thing of the past tbh. It depends what isolator you are comparing it to. Of course, it depends on the DAC you are using for instance the Singxer SDA6 PRO has galvanic isolation and a near perfect USB implementation and a DDC between it and the PC does pretty much nothing.

Not really sure what you mean by that, haven't heard that PCI Express interface was replaced.
Adding USB PCI-E add on card was a known solution to deal with some MBs crappy onboard USB.
And yes, highish end DACs usually have that galvanic isolation solution onboard.

 

[GoldenSound]

I think the problem here is somewhat multifactorial:

- Firstly, people will often refer to various devices, be it DDCs or USB filters/isolators etc as 'snakeoil'.
THIS particular point is demonstrably false. These devices can and DO make a difference. Whether that difference is good or bad (it's entirely possible for your DDC to increase jitter if it has poorer clocking than your DAC for example) or whether it's audible is a separate argument. But the fact remains that these devices do indeed work and do exactly what they say (most of the time).
Snakeoil is fake medicine, something that promises to do something and doesn't, that's not the case here.
Just because something isn't worth the expense for you it does not make it snakeoil.

- Secondly, as touched on in the first point, it's situational. Some DACs like a Holo May have built in Galvanic Isolation, and an immensely strong PLL that means basically any source you use will have absolutely 0 impact on performance (unless you turn the PLL off).
Some DACs might not have full USB galvanic isolation but will have pretty good filtering.
And some will have pretty ineffective filtering.
How much the source affects the DAC will depend on both the source and the DAC. Just cause one particular DAC didn't show a meaningful degradation with one particular machine, doesn't mean that all USB filters are therefore pointless.
The Holo May I can connect to my PC with 0 noticeable (or measurable) impact on performance at all.
The X26 Pro I can run direct to my PC with a small measurable impact but small enough that audibility is certainly debatable. (But hey if it's an improvement then why not go for it anyway?)
The RME ADI-2 I could straight up hear GPU activity through the outputs of the DAC and had to use a galvanic isolator to address it.

- Thirdly, it doesn't help that a lot of manufacturers mix some genuine aspects with some audiofoolery nonsense.
Take ifi's iPurifier or iGalvanic for example. The iPurifier is a nice and affordable filtering device that will genuinely reduce noise from the source, and the iGalvanic is a true galvanic isolator which will block any noise completely and provide an exceptionally clean source.
Those parts are genuine, but they both also advertise 'reclocking', which whilst technically true, as any USB repeater/transparent hub is a 'reclocker', will have 0 actual impact on jitter in the DAC due to the nature of how asynchronous USB audio transfer works, and there is 0 evidence whatsoever to support the claim that USB 'reclocking' makes any difference to performance.

 

[kingoftown1]

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