[richard51]

On topic:

Acmee MF02s with Beyerdynamic DT 770 pro 80 ohms

Lush, precise, pushes details and slampunches

You were right for the "golden ratio" .....

May i ask your how would you described your experience of beyerdynamic DT 770 pro 80 ohms, which seems to be your favorite, in relation to the K240 DF....

I am curious about your own experience... Thanks for your opinion and participation...

 

[Elegiac]

You were right for the "golden ratio" .....

May i ask your how would you described your experience of beyerdynamic DT 770 pro 80 ohms, which seems to be your favorite, in relation to the K240 DF....

I am curious about your own experience... Thanks for your opinion and participation...

The k240 DF is revealing, very linear and neutral, and extremely light on the bass. It's all mids and treble, and will take a big crap on anything less than above average music production, unless it's tastefully imperfect, like a smoky jazz recording.

The DT 770 has nice, deep, fairly tight bass, slightly recessed mids, and inoffensive, revealing treble. It's a fun time.

But my favourite all-rounder is the k240 mkII. I can listen to anything with em, and they'll scale to it. They'll smooth out poor productions, and strive to reproduce excellent quality music. They just sound so good... on tubes. Or something warm. Gotta add a pinch of the organic.

 

[richard51]

Very insightful .... Thanks....

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Seriously, I thought mods were supposed to be the mature ones taking the high road...

Apparently arguing all day in the sound science forum just wasn't enough to get the aggression out.

The sound science forum itself is aggression...

 

[richard51]

People posting in this thread must submit what is their least cost best system in the world... Best S.Q. /price ratio...

But also they must submit what is their dreamed, ideal cost, best system in the world; it must be a possible upgrade , not a one million dollars amplifier etc.... It would be more interesting if they explained why it is their choices....

 

[gimmeheadroom]

For me top line Audio-gd gear. It's my favorite brand. Not sure what speakers I would pick.

 

[HBen]

First give the best S.Q. for the least price...

Second, give the best S.Q. with no ceiling for the price....

First: any headphone you get get for free ... like those bundle earphones you got about 20 years ago. They produce sound (somewhat) and it costs nothing, so "best" sound (better than no sound at all) for the least price

Second: There is no "best" - if you want the best at everything you need a whole bunch of TOTL-headphones and a few different amps and DAC's to combine them with since system synergy matters a lot. I'd say about 50-100k$ can get you pretty far. If you insist on a single headphone I'd go with the HE1 or some other TOTL electrostat setup like TOTL Stax on a T2 but of course depends on what you fancy

Well there you have it ... unfortunately I don't really understand how this is actually going to help you though ...

 

[richard51]

First: any headphone you get get for free ... like those bundle earphones you got about 20 years ago. They produce sound (somewhat) and it costs nothing, so "best" sound (better than no sound at all) for the least price

Second: There is no "best" - if you want the best at everything you need a whole bunch of TOTL-headphones and a few different amps and DAC's to combine them with since system synergy matters a lot. I'd say about 50-100k$ can get you pretty far. If you insist on a single headphone I'd go with the HE1 or some other TOTL electrostat setup like TOTL Stax on a T2 but of course depends on what you fancy

Well there you have it ... unfortunately I don't really understand how this is actually going to help you though ...

First: a ratio S.Q./price implicitly suppose that we spoke about the optimal ratio about the highest sound quality possible and the least price possible IN EACH ONE OF US SPECIFIC EXPERIENCE for sure....Or in other words, how much is the minimal amount of money i paid to own one of the best S.Q. possible in my own journey .... The fact that this question is about a subjective opinion dont suppress his possible meaningfulness for many people....

Your proposition of a bundle free cheap headphone is then meaningless relative to my question.... Because the S.Q. of a cheap free bundle headphone is trash from the beginning and then void and preposterous proposition for my question about your own optimal PROPOSED ratio in your own audio journey ....

Second: if you had read my post rightfully with attention, i never asked for what is the best in the absolute sense but for the best in relation to the above RELATIVE ratio scale : S.Q. /price....Anyone with minimal common sense know already that there is no absolute best relative to this ratio scale in audio....Then please give at least to me that i may partake with you this elementary common sense....And yes there exist " a best" or an optimal proposition in a relative scale S.Q./price ratio different for sure for each one of us....

Anyway i want to thank you sincerely for your participation..... I never think that my question could be so hard to understand meaningfully.... Perhaps i was wrong...

Anyway this question is particularly important in audio purchase especially for us unable to afford all TOTL there is, then i asked for others opinions about it....And among the different answers some may interest somebody if the person proposing his solution about this ratio is for sure able to explain why he propose his answer.... Is it too much asking or too complex and too hard to ask ?


Now reading your "signature" i see that you own plenty of pricey TOTL, probably my question will be more directed toward people less lucky than you and in search of the highest quality possible at the lowest price.... A ratio of interest for those of us unable to afford 10 TOTL.... Then another way to ask the question could be adressed to those of us lucky enough to know first hand the best TOTL, what is in their experience the best S.Q. for the least price... Then it will be useful for people with less budget...

By the way i am very interested by your own opinion and experience.... Forgetting or not about S.Q./price ratio, then what is you prefered headphone and why ? And what is the lowest price headphone in your collection which is the nearer to the best you own ?

Thanks for your answer and my very best to you....

 

[VNandor]

I think technically every penny you spend on gear after getting something that lets you enjoy music puts you deeper and deeper into diminishing returns territory. So the best audio system in terms of SQ/price is the cheapest gear you enjoyed. Which is clearly going to be different for everybody. I personally would be content with any of the headphones I have (HD600, DT770, K545), which is why I have them in the first place.

 

[richard51]

I think technically every penny you spend on gear after getting something that lets you enjoy music puts you deeper and deeper into diminishing returns territory. So the best audio system in terms of SQ/price is the cheapest gear you enjoyed. Which is clearly going to be different for everybody. I personally would be content with any of the headphones I have (HD600, DT770, K545), which is why I have them in the first place.

Very good answer in my book...

Anyway my question make sense in this audio forum, if we want together discuss and detail for our readers what are the qualities of the basic components which for us represent this threshold of optimal S.Q./ price ratio for musical satisfaction...

For me i am astounded that after the optimization of my headphone ( K340 ) for the first time of my life i enjoy music without being bothered by the limitations of my actual system precisely because these limitations so much less audible than on my past others multiples components are now no more bothering...

The lesson i learned is that it is way more difficult to stumble upon a very good headphone nowadays than on a good amplifier or even on a good dac... ( None of my past headphones gives me any satisfaction at all compared to my speakers/dedicated acoustic room )

My dac for example is a basic one and in spite of that, the music coming from my hyeadphone amaze me non stop from the moment i finalized his optimization.... I dont really need now a new "better" dac or a new "better" amplifier... But by God! i needed badly this headphone K340 , thanks to God i have it, i could no more fault my audio system, not because it is perfect, it is not, but his limitations are no more a sensible audible impediment.... This is the reason i thought so highly about this headphone....


My thread is about what others experienced similar to mine, relative to this threshold you spoke about wisely , or related to this S.Q. /price optimal ratio which is a factor necessary to "compute" in any wise purchase....

As i said there is no absolute best component, but there exist the best possible for our joy and ectasy.... It would help others if those ,who are like me or like you in audio heaven, communicate how, and why and with what components they are totally happy ....

A question: what is different in these 3 headphones,(HD600, DT770, K545) and why and how could you be happy with only one of them ? Myself none of my past 9 headphones make me happy... In my book it take one, the one without too much evident lacks or faults, the one with something unique no ?

Thanks for your participation and my very best to you....

 

[richard51]

Just a last word to say that if i could had acoustically managed in the past my own dedicated room homemade at no cost for my speakers with success and with a soundfield 3-D around me, this means that what i look for with my components is at worst a minimal acoustic end result comparable to my dedicated room... Anything less is trash for me, I.E useless to listen happily to music because sound can be an impediment ....

Then a wise choice of component is based on ACOUSTIC experience for me not on price....Perhaps i am nuts about sound , but not a gullible customer nor a passive consumer....

And because of money limitation, i am not interested by " the best in the world" based on price or marketing, but "the best in the world" for each of you based on your experience not on pricing... Each of us being different, the discussion will be interesting.... I only supposed and thought that you could be able to not only name but explain a bit your choices....

I dont want a list of best of.... I want explanations about your choices... I can explain mine very well and with many details... I chose not to do this here because this thread is not about ME, i explained already my choice in another thread for that, but about your choices and your opinions for the benefit of all ....

 

[castleofargh]

Just a last word to say that if i could acoustically managed in the past my own dedicated room homemade at no cost for my speakers with success and with a soundfield 3-D around me, this means that what i look for with my components is at worst a minimal acoustic end result comparable to my dedicated room... Anything less is trash for me, I.E useless to listen happily to music because sound can be an impediment ....

Then a wise choice of component is based on ACOUSTIC experience for me not on price....Perhaps i am nuts about sound , but not a gullible customer nor a passive consumer....

And because of money limitation, i am not interested by " the best in the world" based on price or marketing, but "the best in the world" for each of you based on your experience not on pricing... Each of us being different, the discussion will be interesting.... I only supposed and thought that you could be able to not only name but explain a bit your choices....

I dont want a list of best of.... I want explanations about your choices... I can explain mine very well and with many details... I chose not to do this here because this thread is not about ME, i explained already my choice in another thread for that, but about your choices and your opinions for the benefit of all ....

Then for the money the best option is https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/Impulcifer or similar convolution done by yourself if you know how.
It's to record a signal from actual speakers with binaural microphones(in your own ears) and then again with a pair of headphones. It then works on giving that headphone, the sound from speakers+room at your ears and your own HRTF included in the impulses.
It's not perfect because all is done at the mics and not at your own eardrum, plus impulses don't contain nonlinear distortions (some see that as a bonus though). IT also lacks tactile bass which is a big part of the speaker experience. And of course the more objectively high fidelity the headphone is, the less it will have its own acoustic imprint on the final sound.
The cost is personal efforts (potentially a lot of tries to get things as good as possible and to understand how the software works), and whatever one decides to put in binaural mics plus possible ADC if the mic uses XLR.
For the money, it's impossible to beat in terms of getting room like space perception without speakers.
Thread of the dozen or so guys who tried and help when asked (when there is personal effort involved, audiophiles tend to vanish mysteriously). https://www.head-fi.org/threads/recording-impulse-responses-for-speaker-virtualization.890719/

Personally, impressions of space are very dependent on how well they agree with my head movements(IDK why as not everybody seems as sensitive to that), so I wanted head tracking and got a Realiser A16, but the retail price is kind of absurd (not that Choueri's stuff is a bargain).


Apple whatever promax+ something that does atmos with tracking of the headphone's movement, could be considered a very interesting alternative for those who care more about head tracking than they care about correct HRTF compensation. As an eternal Apple hater, I wouldn't get one, but TBH it sounds fine even as a basic headphone, and pleases most users, so it seems fair to consider it as an option.

 

[richard51]

Thanks very interesting.... The Bacch filters of Dr. Choueri i cited in my opening post goes the same way but it is more costly than what you spoke about.... I will read about it... It is interesting for all....

By the way i tried to create my dedicated audio room with speakers to live an acoustic experience 3-D with the intimacy of headphone 7 years ago ... I succeed in some great extent...
In the same way after loosing my dedicated room, i tried to discover some headphone with speaker like sound, 3-D and an out of the head distribution... The only one which can do a bit of that, well optimized was my K340.... I was less sad to lose my room thanks to this remarkable piece of past engineering...

For sure the Smyth realizer or the Choueri filters with their use of HRTF psycho-acoustic are way more sophisticated and efficient and are on another level than this headphone of the past....But this K340 is really a bit of taste of spatialization and localisation , not at all on par with the method using HRTF and head tracking for sure, but i cannot afford them anyway.... I am glad to learn about impulcifer.... Some others too....

Thanks

 

[VNandor]

A question: what is different in these 3 headphones,(HD600, DT770, K545) and why and how could you be happy with only one of them ? Myself none of my past 9 headphones make me happy... In my book it take one, the one without too much evident lacks or faults, the one with something unique no ?

I use them for different things. At home I almost always use the HD600, I used the DT770 at the office and sometimes for commuting, and the K545 is the one I use as an actually portable headphone. I found the DT770 to be too bulky for commuting but they are sturdy enough to just chuck it in my bag and bring it to the office.

They all have a fairly different sound but only the DT770 is offensive enough to make me not enjoy listening to music, and only with a small and particularly bright part of my music collection. So overall they got a pass from me because I still like most of my music with them.

I guess the explanation of how I could be happy with any of them is that I'm okay without having my "absolute favourite" headphone as long as I still get to keep something that let's me enjoy the music I like.

 

[richard51]

I use them for different things. At home I almost always use the HD600, I used the DT770 at the office and sometimes for commuting, and the K545 is the one I use as an actually portable headphone. I found the DT770 to be too bulky for commuting but they are sturdy enough to just chuck it in my bag and bring it to the office.

They all have a fairly different sound but only the DT770 is offensive enough to make me not enjoy listening to music, and only with a small and particularly bright part of my music collection. So overall they got a pass from me because I still like most of my music with them.

I guess the explanation of how I could be happy with any of them is that I'm okay without having my "absolute favourite" headphone as long as I still get to keep something that let's me enjoy the music I like.

Not the answer i hoped for, but you are wise and i cannot fault you at all... I dont listen headphones myself , i listen music then i understand you ... It is the reason why i use only ONE headphone... But to be truthful, the sound quality is very important to me, as important as music in a way, and without the K340, and with any of the other headphones i know , i will be very sad.... I am not as wise and perhaps less spiritual or mature as you seems to be.... i say it without any sarcasm....

Thanks for your participation.... I wish you the very best.....