[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpstereo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Couldn't have said it better myself. Penchum has been a great help to me and many, many others. He is selfless and is a credit to this forum. I for one, thank him immensely for his contributions.

X2

 

[Golden Monkey]

X3!

 

[jordanross]

X4!

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Thanks so much MODS !!!.....Hopefully this board can get back to what is important, sharing of information and mutual enjoyment of music through our collective experiences with all types and budget levels of gear.

Peete.

 

[crappyjones123]

huh? i thought it was about our love for cheez 'n tourtles! blah wrong forum again

my first amp was a little dot mk v. i had it for about 4 months before i sold it not because i didnt like it, but i needed the funds at the time. at the time i thought of it to be the greatest amp ever made. and then i went to canjam and all my impressions of my supposedly awesome rig went out the window. the 650s didnt sound the same.

the little dots are great amps for the price they are sold at. the customer service leaves very little to be desired. however, if one were to put it again a zana or a sds or even an ec/ss for that matter, the difference in sound will be fairly obvious. i am not engineer nor do i claim to know much about the interns of amps, but the argument for one clean watt being one clean watt might not be the strongest in this case. NOTHING generates one clean watt. there is always loss in power SOMEWHERE along the way. nothing is 100% efficient.

summary, ld's are great amps but i find it hard to believe they would stand up and hold their ground against any of the big amps that may or may not cost a kidney.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crappyjones123 /img/forum/go_quote.gif huh? i thought it was about our love for cheez 'n tourtles! blah wrong forum again my first amp was a little dot mk v. i had it for about 4 months before i sold it not because i didnt like it, but i needed the funds at the time. at the time i thought of it to be the greatest amp ever made. and then i went to canjam and all my impressions of my supposedly awesome rig went out the window. the 650s didnt sound the same. the little dots are great amps for the price they are sold at. the customer service leaves very little to be desired. however, if one were to put it again a zana or a sds or even an ec/ss for that matter, the difference in sound will be fairly obvious. i am not engineer nor do i claim to know much about the interns of amps, but the argument for one clean watt being one clean watt might not be the strongest in this case. NOTHING generates one clean watt. there is always loss in power SOMEWHERE along the way. nothing is 100% efficient. summary, ld's are great amps but i find it hard to believe they would stand up and hold their ground against any of the big amps that may or may not cost a kidney.

Finally

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crappyjones123 /img/forum/go_quote.gif the argument for one clean watt being one clean watt might not be the strongest in this case. NOTHING generates one clean watt. there is always loss in power SOMEWHERE along the way. nothing is 100% efficient.

watts = amperes x volts = joules/seconds

Watts measure the rate of energy transference across a medium. Of course there are factors inside an amplifier which add resistance to the transferring medium, this does affect power via Ohm's law: I(amperes) = V(volts) / R (length * Rho / area) since power is dependent on I and V. If you measure a stable watt at the amplifier's output any internal power loss irrelevant. This means that when you balance the power output of two different amps (say a "low end" and "high end") there is absolutely no difference between the measured watts. The current at the output of an amplifier is alternating current not direct current (unless the wave form is fully clipped). An amplifier's sole purpose is to amplify this alternating current linearly and neutrally across all audible frequencies. It is certainly true that different amplifiers fail at doing this at different gain points, but when you configure the amplifier so that they are not clipping the frequencies, and are within their clean output limits, then yes: a clean signal across one amp is exactly the same as a clean signal across a different amp. Some amplifier (such as tube amps) artificially induce distortion into the signal in the form of odd order harmonic distortion. But guess what, remember the THD spec that all amplifier have? If the THD of the amp is lower than 0.3% it's not noticeably audible to humans, most people can't even detect a THD of 1%.

 

[grawk]

The purpose of an amplifier may be to amplify current linearly and neutrally (tho really, it isn't, especially with tube amps), but in practice, no amplifier is perfect. Lots of things impact sound, and lots of people can hear those differences. On top of that, there is no standard for published specifications. The amp builder chooses what specs to publish, and how to perform the testing to determine that specification. Declaring that watts is watts suggests lack of practical experience. There are lots of things that impact the sound of an amplifier. Source impedance, amplifier impedance, power supply design, amplifier speed, component quality, component matching, assembly quality, EMF rejection, etc. You can take the same amplifier design, change the trace layout, and have an amplifier that sounds signficantly different.

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif The purpose of an amplifier may be to amplify current linearly and neutrally (tho really, it isn't, especially with tube amps), but in practice, no amplifier is perfect. Lots of things impact sound, and lots of people can hear those differences. On top of that, there is no standard for published specifications. The amp builder chooses what specs to publish, and how to perform the testing to determine that specification. Declaring that watts is watts suggests lack of practical experience. There are lots of things that impact the sound of an amplifier. Source impedance, amplifier impedance, power supply design, amplifier speed, component quality, component matching, assembly quality, EMF rejection, etc. You can take the same amplifier design, change the trace layout, and have an amplifier that sounds signficantly different.

I disagree. I'll remain tenacious on this until someone can show me proof otherwise. No offense but I'm not easily convinced by subjective reviews with fluffy words, and pseudo scientific explanations.

 

[boomana]

lapwing, there's a old cliche that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Actually, a little knowledge isn't dangerous at all, but rather, it's the audacity of those who possess a little knowledge to make pronouncements dismissing the experience of others who have more knowledge.

 

[grawk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapwing /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree. I'll remain tenacious on this until someone can show me proof otherwise. No offense but I'm not easily convinced by subjective reviews with fluffy words, and pseudo scientific explanations.

Feel free to disagree. But think about this: why are you using an expensive tube amp compared to an inexpensive chip amp, if all things are equal?

I also didn't use fluffy words or pseudo scientific explainations. I merely pointed out things that could impact the sound.

 

[Lapwing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif why are you using an expensive tube amp compared to an inexpensive chip amp, if all things are equal?

As I stated at the beginning of this thread I bought the LD MKIII because I needed something with enough power for my high impedance senns. I also found many positive testimonials proclaiming for good the Little Dots build quality was. I want an amp that will last me a long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also didn't use fluffy words or pseudo scientific explainations. I merely pointed out things that could impact the sound.

I apologize if it came across as an accusation against you. I didn't mean it in that way. I direct that comment to all of the fluffy reviews I've read that use subjective terms and bad science.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Subjectively, I like my MKV. It has improved every aspect of my life...reds are redder, chocolate is chocolatyer, sand paper is sandier...

 

[boomana]

If I had to place bets, I'd say the Little Dot phenomenon was driven by both shilling and enthusiasm. I've called Penchum a shill before, and perhaps it's just excessive fanboyism, but it's a fine line, and I think he's crossed it. Here are five the only seven threads he's started in the amp forum:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-284835/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-289765/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...mkivse-266751/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-309855/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...ifiers-301219/


The other two threads are 1) post pictures of your glowing tubes (featuring his LittleDots) and other other for the Zero amp/dac. Manufacturers pay for sub forums and/or announcements in the mall forum for such promotion. He regularly bumps these threads so that they are frequently together on the front page of this forum. We've all seen this. What new member, checking out this forum wouldn't think the Little Dots are highly regarded, important amps? He also frequents the headphone forum where he posts links to these threads, and/or the Little Dot website. Obsessive posting by Penchum in these threads, coupled with his equally enthusiastic participation on the Little Dot website forum make his actions highly suspect. I've recommended it be looked into, and I still think it should.

I'm not saying Penchum isn't knowledgeable or helpful. Excessive fanboys and/or good shills always are, but let's take a look at the extent of his knowledge. These are his amps from his profile:

Little-Dot LDII++ (Exterior Mods) (Wife took)
Little-Dot MT (LT1364 Opamp) (Daughter took)
Little-Dot MK1 (Portable, LT1364 Opamp)
Little-Dot MKII (6H30PI Power Tube Mod)(Gold Volume Knob)
Little-Dot MKIII (6H30PI Power Tube Mod)(Gold Volume Knob)
Little-Dot MKIVse (6H30PI-DR's, Gold Volume Knob)
Little-Dot MKV (Gold Volume Knob)
ZERO 24 BIT/192KHz DAC/Head Amp/Pre-Amp (Resistor Mod, Alps Pot Mod)

That's fine and dandy, but what is knowledge without reference points? What other amps has he heard with which to make comparisons? Maybe others, but he never mentions them. For those members who read his "these amps are wonderful" posts, do you ever wonder from what level of knowledge or experience he is speaking, or are you taking his words as truth because he sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

So Penchum's fanboyism/shilling is 100% driving the Little Dot phenomenon. The rest comes from the enthusiasm of those who have followed, some as shown in this thread are, for all practical purposes, his disciples. Most are happy with their amps, and most (certainly not all) have little experience with other amps, so any newbie coming in gets the idea that these amps are the best thing going because that's what folks are saying.

Please note that I'm not commenting on the actual amps, their sq or their value. I also think that if you want one, get one, and if you love yours, that's great. I just hope members use their critical intelligence when evaluating the so-called rave reviews. The op wanted to know what was driving the phenomenon, and I think it's pretty clear.

 

[ciphercomplete]

^I hear what you are saying, I just think you are making too big of a deal over it.

I read both of Penchum's reviews on the MKII and the MKIII before purchasing them but his reviews were not the only ones I read. I think most people do what I did. Turns out after reading his thread I was a happy purchaser just like the hundreds of others who posted in the same threads.

Penchum has just called attention to what are generally great amps for their price range. All those happy buyers can't be too wrong. Penchum does glow about Little Dot Amps in his reviews but I think the intelligent shopper takes those types of remarks with a grain of salt. He does however give fabulous insight into the overall sound, build quality, modability etc.

You also talk about his experience with other amps and that may be a fair criticism. However, Penchum never claims that these amps outperform others just that they, the amps, are good themselves. Further, comparitive reviews on this message board are rarely, and I mean rarley helpful. Once in a blue moon you will get a good well written comparitive review like the one comparing the upgraded Woo Audio 6 to the Melos SHA and the Zana Deux from a while back. Most people suck at writting comparitive reviews because they usually come to the table with ridiculous biases and preferences or in the alternative are clueless when it comes to describing what they are actually hearing. And lets not mention the fact that everyone has different headphone tastes.

Penchum on the other hand gives impression reviews. He just listens to the thing and determines whether he is enjoying himself or not. He is also very good at describing what he is hearing.

I just think the criticism of Penchum isn't really that fair and it mainly stems from the fact that he likes Little Dot and hasn't felt the need to bother with anything else. Some people think that negates his positive reviews while others think it just reinforces them. It would be one thing if the amps sucked but they don't.