What happened to the Shure E4 group buy thread?

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver This could be better than the group buys we’ve seen before. Dealers will have to put up a good offer to win the group buy so we might actually see some competition. Previously the group buys were sole source and not really competitive between the dealers.

That's kind of what I was thinking when I read through the draft. Better structured and possibly better deals, I don't see how this is a bad thing.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari * HeadFi transactions should also be fee based if group buys are fee based. I dont think this is a big deal if a HeadFi charges 5% of the selling price for every transaction. How the buyer/seller deal with this is up to them...they can split the cost...etc.

I don't think one has to do with the other. In other words, I disagree.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari * Group-Buy "RULES" need to be restricted to items that are otherwise readily available from HeadRoom/TTVJ etc. If none of them sell the Ultimate Ears UE10 (for example) or the Eastsound CDP then the rules should not apply because it is not in direct competition with them.

I strongly disagree. A Member of the Trade who wishes to profit from selling via Head-Fi is a Member of the Trade who wishes to profit from selling via Head-Fi. I'll say it again, this isn't to protect sponsors specifically, but so as not to undermine the sponsor/advertising structure necessary for the site to survive.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari * Group-Buy "RULES" should not apply to DIY parts/tools/components

It depends. The intent is to cover this in the first version of the rules regarding group buys, but there will likely be certain exemptions that address concerns about DIY-related group buys.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari * Group-Buy "RULES" cannot apply to audiocubes in the case of Japanese products because audiocubes doesnt offer any of the services that Headroom does (30 day returns/extended warranty etc.)

Cannot? Tell you what, man, read my point two points up.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari * The "RULES Implementation" should be transparent. The bidding procedure/selection procedure should be open to the public for all to observe.

I haven't made a final decision on how bids will be handled yet. I can only say at this point that the proposals will come in, and the Members of the Trade who wish to participate will only be able to submit one proposal per group buy. What I saw in the previous group buy process for the E4c was a bit, well, amorphous. I had a few vendors tell me that they were re-approached several times to hammer them down a few bucks here, a few bucks there, and that's why you saw the confusion about which vendor was going to do what. At some point a deal has to be struck to actually conduct the group buy. So, again, vendors will get one shot at it. The offer that's chosen is the one that gets offered. As for whether or not the final structure will meet your desired transparency I haven't decided yet. Frankly, some of the most important feedback I've had through this process has been from several of the vendors who'll likely be proposing for even the likely first group buy (E4c).

In the big scheme of things, Guru, you're missing a very key point: I don't think that whether the members get their E4c for $180 or $190 should rank among the primary concerns with regard to the administration of the site.

Anyway, I've spent way too much time responding here today, so I'm going to step out of this discussion. You can keep on going, but I've got too much to do right now to debate this with you. If you don't get my position by now, you're not going to.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Okay, I've calmed down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by braillediver This could be better than the group buys we’ve seen before. Dealers will have to put up a good offer to win the group buy so we might actually see some competition. Previously the group buys were sole source and not really competitive between the dealers.

I know this is true on my side. Most of the time I've been unaware of group buys that have gone down that I might participate in. I know that we'd be pretty aggresive in getting a good price out there.

 

[Spiritboxer]

You really have to love what you're doing to run a forum/site. My hat's off to Jude, bigtime!

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude In the big scheme of things, Guru, you're missing a very key point: I don't think that whether the members get their E4c for $180 or $190 should rank among the primary concerns with regard to the administration of the site.

I guess this is correct. I should include "MOTT" (Members Of The Trade) also along with manufacturers.

Aargh

Best to just wait and see how it pans out...

To make a point for people struggling for money:

$10.00 doesnt make a difference to your decision but it makes a difference to them. $10.00 EXTRA is a lot of money for these folks...students, kids on an allowance...

But you gotta do what you gotta do...and they gotta do the same. I am sure both parties will find a way to get what they want.

gs

 

[vranswer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari To make a point for people struggling for money: $10.00 doesnt make a difference to your decision but it makes a difference to them. $10.00 EXTRA is a lot of money for these folks...students, kids on an allowance... gs

....huh? If you're struggling for money and $10 is a lot of money, then I doubt you'd be jumping up there to grab a $200 earphone. Conversely, if you can beg, plead dad for the $180, then I also doubt you'll have that much trouble groveling for $10 more.

 

[TMC]

First of all I've never been part of any group-buys or am considering one at the moment, but I'd still like to make some observations. While I understand and in parts agree with the needs for the kind of rules being drawn up at the moment to protect the business interests contributing to head-fi, I think this will in effect greatly hinder the power a group-buy puts in the hand of the buyers. I mean let's be honest, the whole idea of group-buys is to get the lowest price possible by having a fairly large amount of buyers gathered. If every company selling to a group-buy has to pay a fee for being held at head-fi it will of course put off quite a few companies and of course will hinder the competition with a higher price for the buyers being the end result. Personally I think that might be a bit over-protective of contributing companies and put a few too many restraints on the members, where some have already personally contributed to head-fi. Once again I have to say that I fully understand why jude has to come up with these group-buy rules, but if I was a member who was trying to get a group-buy organized, I can imagine I would be quite disappointed with these kind of restrictions. Just a couple of thoughts from my behalf, being somewhat neutral in this matter.

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC ....I mean let's be honest, the whole idea of group-buys is to get the lowest price possible by having a fairly large amount of buyers gathered....

And, again, I don't see that as something that can or should be a primary concern with regard to running the site.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC ....If every company selling to a group-buy has to pay a fee for being held at head-fi it will of course put off quite a few companies and of course will hinder the competition with a higher price for the buyers being the end result....

Man, this is like a loop tape. Please read my above point, and my previous points stating that I'm not interested in giving, or being able to give, free ads to Members of the Trade who wish to profit from selling to the community, especially in such a quick-hit quick-in quick-out quick-profit manner.
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMC ....if I was a member who was trying to get a group-buy organized, I can imagine I would be quite disappointed with these kind of restrictions....

In most cases now, the members won't have to do much to have a group buy organized, if all works as intended.
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari ....To make a point for people struggling for money: $10.00 doesnt make a difference to your decision but it makes a difference to them. $10.00 EXTRA is a lot of money for these folks...students, kids on an allowance....

If that ten bucks means that they can't buy the earphones and concurrently make their rent, put food on the table, or pay other critical bills, then I'd suggest reassessing the importance of the earphone purchase. Again, that people "struggling for money" can't get their earphones within some critical ten-buck range needed to make that purchase obviously can't be a primary concern with regard to administration of the site.

Over and out.

 

[kyrie]

Pehaps I did not make my point clear enough previously, but again, to save Head-fi members' wallets or to uphold their interests is not Jude's priority nor his business. His foremost priority is to keep this site running. If Jude thinks that allowing certain members of this site to shave $10 off their expenditures will ultimately lead to the downfall of Head-fi, he is probably right (since he by far knows the most about how this site works, how it's run, and how it's financed), and what more, we should support him at all costs, because we wouldn't want Head-fi to disappear one day, now would we?

 

[Welly Wu]

GSFerrari:

I respect you and I don't want to get on your bad side, but I have to agree with Jude so far in the points that he is crafting for his first...umm..."Group Buy Constitution." Sure, I want to pay the lowest price for any Head-Fi related equipment from the most reputable seller possible, but I can and will pay the extra $10 USD for a Head-Fi sponsored group buy if it means that it will help Jude keep this place running. Think about that Amazon link: if you click on it, a small amount of the items that you purchase will go back to Head-Fi. How is that any different than a newly formed Head-Fi Group Buy? If we are using Jude's Head-Fi forum to conduct sales, then we have to respect his house rules too. I agree that some DIY group buys need to be handled differently, but I say that a group buy for something as expensive as a Meridian Reference 800 or inexpensive as a KOSS the Plug is a group buy that must adhere to Jude's new rules regardless of whether a Head-Fi sponsor is selling them or not. We are still using Jude's Head-Fi forum to conduct the group buy. What if the new Ultimate Ears Super.Fi PRO/EB earphones get positive reviews and people get interested in organizing a group buy? To date, no Head-Fi sponsor sells them. Does that mean they are not eligible for a Head-Fi Group Buy? Absolutely not because we will still be using Jude's Head-Fi to conduct the group buy. Personally, I would love to have a Head-Fi sponsored Ultimate Ears Group Buy because the quick and ferocious sales may convince Ultimate Ears to become a Head-Fi sponsor in the future! But, I digress on possibilities.

Bottom line (and don't take this as an ultimatum or a personal attack): look out for the bigger picture or the greater good and see the possibilities that this new Head-Fi Group Buy "Constitution" may have for your own bottom line as a member of the trade.

 

[vranswer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrie ...If Jude thinks that allowing certain members of this site to shave $10 off their expenditures will ultimately lead to the downfall of Head-fi, he is probably right (since he by far knows the most about how this site works, how it's run, and how it's financed)...

But....

, er never mind, I'll let him respond to this one.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens Okay, I've calmed down

I dont want to get you riled up again but...


Senn HD-650 prices and STAX prices (just examples) - whassup with that?

I know a dealer who has dealt with a few HeadFi members in the past and offers a 2 year warranty and reputedly has superb service. I havent posted his information on the forums but a bunch of people contacted me in private and they have the dealer's contact info. This dealers price trumps your prices and although slightly more than audiocubes...the warranty is well worth the extra $$$. Yes they dont accept returns/refunds but they will make sure you have a working setup in double quick time. No shipping overseas...If I am certain about what I want then I know where to go to buy this stuff. I think this information should be available to people who DONT know...either via HeadFi or otherwise.

Actually I am going to contact this dealer and make him aware of HeadFi. He has his head up his ass when it comes to audiophiles (only supplies studios and professionals with Stax gear). Maybe he should sponsor HeadFi and place an ad or something...good for HeadFi and good for us!

Until this happens I will not be giving out his information so dont bother asking. Unless Jude or Tyll need this info.

 

[gsferrari]

Look guys - I am just throwing out my opinion and observations. I understand the bottomline - [size=small]HeadFi needs to run[/size]

End of story...

Tyll - how about a official Shure E4 group buy sponsored by Headroom? Consider me your first customer

 

[hawkfire]

hello,

How's about lets get back to PRODUCTIVE discussion about headphones and leave the site administration and policy up to the admin yes?

In reality, it's not like anyone but Jude has any say in the matter anyhow so buck up and toe the line or if you are unhappy about how things are leave because opinions about this topic arent gonna change the way things are.

It's that simple really.

 

[MichaelFranks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari bottomline - [size=small]HeadFi needs to run[/size] End of story... Tyll - how about a official Shure E4 group buy sponsored by Headroom? Consider me your first customer

Good call, they (jude/tyll for instance) have worked to hype this new shure product, rightfully they would like to collect on the subsequent FOTM publicity and sales! I think it only makes sense to turn back the (SLIGHT) profits enabled by garnering a large savings for board members back to those who support the board. Group buys will gain a new level of legitimacy that way as well.