[donunus]

What coloration in what frequencies are referred to this veil? I have had 3 sennheisers the 580, the 555, and the px100. I am wondering which ones of these have that veil for example and how do I find it? There are colorations unique to the senns however that I find annoying and are totally absent from grados for example... It is somewhere in the upper midrange to the lower treble. a weird raucous glare that annoys the $#@#@ out of me. If not for this glare, my current 555s would be perfect for what it is. I am wondering if this glare will go away after break in or if this is the famous senn veil. The 555s are going into 60hrs loud break in and this glare is still present although less than it was out of the box. Grado sr60s for example don't have this even out of the box. The px100 doesnt have this glare either but it is too dull and boxy to be directly compared to the 555 and the 580s which both have this problem. I can't remember if it ever went away with my 580s(RIP) but it did have a lot of it out of the box.

I do like the sound of my 555s but with many 80s new wave and various rock recordings this anomaly bugs me. Even my sr60s are better because they are fun and listenable with these problematic recordings.

If my 555 reaches 100hrs burn in and this glare is still present, should i be able to conclude that I am really a grado man that has been buying the wrong cans? Well, I love the senns a lot except for this problem alone and maybe a bit more bass and low end impact would be nice too. The highest grados ive ever had were the 80s and ive heard the old 325 and didnt think it was worth the money. Is this glare that I'm talking about referred to as the senn VEIL??? or is it something else?

Maybe I should switch my sights to grados or beyers... hmm. Pls help me understand what the senn veil is so that i will know if i should be purchasing more senns in the future or not.

 

[Sovkiller]

Of those three, at least the HD580 has the veil, what it is? I strongly suggest you to do a search, this was a painful and extremelly well discussed term here in headfi for long time, to the point that I prefer not to talk about it anymore, the problem is that you need to hear a different sound, and a different presentation in order to notice it, get outside of the senns world, hearing a Grado, Sony or any other and you wil notice it (not sure ifthe 555 has it or not, at least nobody had talk about it here)

 

[donunus]

These problems I am talking about are very noticeable unless one hasn't heard any good home audio systems. no need to listen to other headphones to get annoyed with these frequencies. Listening to grado sr60s for example just confirms it's there. it is a combination of congestion and harshness in the upper midrange to the lower treble that I am talking about. I was just wondering if that was what was referred to as the infamous "veil".

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

IME, the 580 and 100 definitely have the veil, the HD555 not so much.

I wouldn't worry about it. If you prefer other headphones, buy those headphones. Sennheiser is hardly the last word in neutrality.

-Matt

 

[donunus]

ah ok, so what i'm getting annoyed with is probably not the veil but maybe i am more annoyed by the senn house coloration

too bad though cause everything else about the 555 is darn good for the price

 

[audiofreak]

Quote:

There are colorations unique to the senns however that I find annoying and are totally absent from grados for example... It is somewhere in the upper midrange to the lower treble. a weird raucous glare that annoys the $#@#@ out of me. If not for this glare, my current 555s would be perfect for what it is. I am wondering if this glare will go away after break in or if this is the famous senn veil. The 555s are going into 60hrs loud break in and this glare is still present although less than it was out of the box.

i just bought HD595's a few days ago and noticed this exact thing right out of the box. they were a real issue for me, because they made songs and voices very dim and muddy, which is a huge part of music at least in my collection
i'd say since last tuesday afternoon when i got them, i have burned them in maybe 90 hours. the muddy treble is still an issue. even though these things sound really 'organic' and have nice fun bass and stuff, in foobar2000 i have added some extra DSPs i dont usually use to alter the sound to adjust for it:

i have added the 'noise sharpener' to make the somewhat muddy sound more clearer

i added the 'channel seperator' to help make sound more alive and seperated compared to the dull almost mono-like veil thing you were talking about

i put the equalizer to use and have these settings:

all are 0 (unchanged) except for:

1 - 440kHz
4 - 622kHz
5 - 880kHz
4 - 1.2kHz
3 - 1.8kHz
2 - 2.5kHz

with these settings, the sound is more brighter and has more of the treble. im listening right now in fact and it has much more balanced sound

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus These problems I am talking about are very noticeable unless one hasn't heard any good home audio systems. no need to listen to other headphones to get annoyed with these frequencies. Listening to grado sr60s for example just confirms it's there. it is a combination of congestion and harshness in the upper midrange to the lower treble that I am talking about. I was just wondering if that was what was referred to as the infamous "veil".

The veil has nothing to do wiht distortion or neutrality, the veil is just an effect that you perceive in which the music is a little distant or covered, and a little "blurry" like if you were listening it through a thick piece of cloth, there is where it got the name "veil".... and IMO all freqs are affected as well...

 

[ephemere]

For me, the "veil" on the 580/600 makes it harder to tell the difference between a Guarneri and a Stradivari. They both sound like violins, but the nuance is more veiled than it might be.

 

[billinkansas]

I had 555's - liked them ok, but I knew there had to be better sound. They were at their best with classical piano recordings, very good I think. However, no bass for organ or deep orchestra tones, and maybe a bit veiled. The Beyer DT-880s sure blow them away, but for $100 more. Worth it, I think. I now have the Senn HD-650s as well - a bit veiled but very smooth and sweet. I think the ideal can for me is somewhere between the Senn HD-650 and the Beyer DT-880.
BK

 

[NotoriousBIG_PJ]

The sennheiser veil is what you hear after listening to a pair of grados and going back to your senns.

Biggie.

 

[DevilDog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiofreak i just bought HD595's a few days ago ... i added the 'channel seperator' to help make sound more alive and seperated compared to the dull almost mono-like veil thing you were talking about

This is interesting. Usually, and of course your ears may be different, the 595s aren't accused of having the "veil." That's usually reserved for the 580/600/650 line, but not exclusively.
Anyway, I've never heard the 595s considered "mono-like." They're supposed to have one of the widest sound stages available. Maybe other things you're hearing are making them seem closed in. Just a thought.

 

[audiofreak]

Quote:

This is interesting. Usually, and of course your ears may be different, the 595s aren't accused of having the "veil." That's usually reserved for the 580/600/650 line, but not exclusively. Anyway, I've never heard the 595s considered "mono-like." They're supposed to have one of the widest sound stages available. Maybe other things you're hearing are making them seem closed in. Just a thought.

is there anything you can recommend from experience? these are my first trip into hi-fi audio. and maybe i didnt describe it above as accurately as i should have, because i was going too fast. but when i listen now, removing all DSPs from my program and making the audio sound completely unaltered from my laptop, when i do this, it does have a nice sound, but the treble is lower and makes the songs sound different. it makes me want to turn the volume up to get those trebles clearer, but when i do this it only increases the lower frequencies again, so the disproportionality (dunno if thats a real word) is still there.

when i say it makes the songs sound different, i am comparing them to how i have heard the songs on the radio, on my speakers, and on my other cheaper headphones

 

[Kirosia]

You running em straight from your lappy? That may be the problem. Source is a huge factor in sonics and soundstage. (plus, if the 595 is like other senns, it likes amplification)

It's probably underpowered. (I don't mean being able to go loud)

 

[overlunge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ The sennheiser veil is what you hear after listening to a pair of grados and going back to your senns. Biggie.

Love it! I guess this particular quality is largely subjectively and relatively speaking.

To me, the 'veil' was the sound being less upfront, and in your face. The details are there but you have to actively seek/listen for it. Where as Grado, the upfront, liveliness projects the music in your ear/face...

Different kind of experience, I must say.


Overlunge

 

[donunus]

Audiofreak, We are talking about the same thing... I don't understand why not too many people complain about this annoying senn artifact. From looking at what sovkiller said and other threads, the veil is something different. The veil is something less annoying to me. From my understanding, the veil is the more damped sound of senns which are actually nice sometimes. Its still there on the 555 but not as much as 580s.

Anyone Else think this senn artifact me and audiofreak hear will go away with burn in? This question is for people that have heard what we are talking about.
If it won't go away... all the other good traits of this can is going to be a waste. grados come back