[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl The "veil" IME is not related to the frequency repsonse of the Senns. It's a general haziness and wooly-ness that covers the entire presentation, giving a damped-down and distancing effect, that is present everywhere, not just in the highs. I would attribute the effect to the design of the driver, the materials used in its composition. I suspect what people are hearing is actually the "sound" of the Senn driver material itself, its physical characteristics that are acting subtly on its ability to reproduce the sound. That's why it effects all the Senns, they most likely use the same driver material in virtually all their cans (even my PX200s have the veil). So, I don't see it as a deliberate dip in the EQ in some restricted part of the range.

I'm definitely inclined to think the same -- except for the initial judgment and related adjectives, which don't apply at all to the real thing to me.

At least, not if you want to let me think that the resulting sound isn't natural -- in fact, my own ears/brains, trained to (hi-end "monitor" bookshelf) speakers mostly, and to the "natural sounding" sort of music, tell me it is.

Therefore, anything sounding distinctly different from this kind of presentation will encounter my suspicion...

 

[mysticaldodo]

I'm using a up front source with the HD 650. I would say the soundstage is wider compared to a Grado. Something detail are not as immediate compared to a foward sounding headphone. If there is a veil, it doesn't bother me

 

[Riordan]

this nice little veil discussion is slightly off topic here... well, not technically (the thread title IS rather misleading) but as far as the original poster's questions are concerned.

the tragicomic aspect is that donunus chimes in once in a while with a rehash of his original burn-in (burning) question, but is blissfully ignored by the assorted veil experts...

so there's a new angle to the sennheiser veil: apparently it's all just an urban legend concocted to veil some other more glaring problem.

no, i'm not serious, and sorry donunus, i can't help you either.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus everyone is answering the title of the thread but what about the peak that i am talking about? For the songs that are affected with this peak, my 555s are more fatiguing than the sr60 with comfies which are slightly darker, duller and more unoffensive but more forward and fatter sounding. well try listening to a modern recording for ex. keanes hopes and fears.

I agree that some of the discussions seems to be missing the point of your more recent posts about the "peak." IMO, however, the peak or fatique you experience is probably attributable to your source.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS I agree that some of the discussions seems to be missing the point of your more recent posts about the "peak." IMO, however, the peak or fatique you experience is probably attributable to your source.

I agree with your agreement ... and, donunus, my HD595 doesn't have any such disturbing glare or peak, not for my ears (or ear shape) at least. Likely it's your source or cables etc.


Riordan: thanks for the early call

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ephemere I agree with your assessment. Frequency response gets way too much credit on this forum.

Without frequencies, there wouldn't be much to hear... We'd all be left straining to hear our veils and interconnects and sampling rates and clock errors without any success!

Frequency response is what we actually hear. Balanced frequency response is what we generally think of as "good sound". It really isn't that strange of a concept.

See ya
Steve

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Frequency response is what we actually hear. Balanced frequency response is what we generally think of as "good sound".

I disagree. A balanced frequency response is just one of many aspects of "good sound". A transducer can have a perfectly balanced frequency response and still sound like mush due to poor transient response, phase problems, non-linearity, and a host of other factors. If a transducer gets much of this other stuff right, it can be highly resolving and transparent even without looking so great on the frequency response chart. I see a lot of posts here that attribute far too much to frequency response (often using the misleading word "neutral"), as if it were the only source of coloration in a system. Far from the truth.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot Frequency response is what we actually hear.

Not quite. Sound waves are what we hear, maybe frequencies if you like.


Quote:

Balanced frequency response is what we generally think of as "good sound".

Not necessarily. You should be careful with the «we generally» when what's actually meant is «I».

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl The "veil" IME is not related to the frequency repsonse of the Senns. It's a general haziness and wooly-ness that covers the entire presentation, giving a damped-down and distancing effect, that is present everywhere, not just in the highs. I would attribute the effect to the design of the driver, the materials used in its composition. I suspect what people are hearing is actually the "sound" of the Senn driver material itself, its physical characteristics that are acting subtly on its ability to reproduce the sound. That's why it effects all the Senns, they most likely use the same driver material in virtually all their cans (even my PX200s have the veil). So, I don't see it as a deliberate dip in the EQ in some restricted part of the range.

I think that if a veil exists (and I'm still not certain that it does), it is caused by what the large velvet covered surround pads do to the sound that the drivers are emitting. I think the pads were obviously designed to tune the sound. It is possible that they slightly overdamp the sound. That is, they soak up unwanted resonances but at the same time take a little of the wanted sound and speed away with it. I think this is why there is a bit of softness to the sound, things tend not to be too exciting or jump out and startle you, like with live music. Just a theory, that's all.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle I think that if a veil exists (and I'm still not certain that it does), it is caused by what the large velvet covered surround pads do to the sound that the drivers are emitting. I think the pads were obviously designed to tune the sound. It is possible that they slightly overdamp the sound. That is, they soak up unwanted resonances but at the same time take a little of the wanted sound and speed away with it. I think this is why there is a bit of softness to the sound, things tend not to be too exciting or jump out and startle you, like with live music. Just a theory, that's all.

I agree with this.