[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX Both a Zu Mobius or a Silver Dragon can fix that. My slight preference going to the Zu for having a little bit tighter bass. What cable do you use with your sens Saint Panda?

I've used the Silver Dragon, Zu (both loaned) and Headphile V2 Silver in my system. Currently, I'm waiting for a custom cable made from an interconnect. But I think that albeit more transparent most people would still regard the HD 600/650 as veiled. In any case, I like the Hd 650 as it is and I'm not wishing for more treble; just a bit more transparency and speed perhaps. My ideal headphone would be a kind of sound hybrid between the AKg K1000 and HD 650.

As has been pointed out before, one way to lessen the "veil" is by removing the sponge, which will shift the frequency response somewhat towards the treble but as side effects you get a slightly harsher treble and less bass. Maybe using a kind of cloth with less natural impedance than the sponge but more than nothing at all would be worth experimenting with.

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Maybe using a kind of cloth with less natural impedance than the sponge but more than nothing at all would be worth experimenting with.

Already been done.

Search for HD600 mod and you will find plenty of results.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus There are colorations unique to the senns however that I find annoying and are totally absent from grados for example...

Every headphone has its individual colorations, and Grados are no exception. Some people call Grados colored and Senns relatively neutral (myself included) -- in fact they just have a different kind of coloration.


Quote:

It is somewhere in the upper midrange to the lower treble, a weird raucous glare that annoys the $#@#@ out of me. If not for this glare, my current 555s would be perfect for what it is.

Hard to tell what it could be -- I only own the HD 595 and don't hear this. The FR graph shows no outstanding coloration...

...the HD 555 is one of the most linear measuring headphones of the group.


Quote:

If my 555 reaches 100hrs burn in and this glare is still present, should i be able to conclude that I am really a grado man that has been buying the wrong cans? Well, I love the senns a lot except for this problem alone and maybe a bit more bass and low end impact would be nice too. The highest grados ive ever had were the 80s and ive heard the old 325 and didnt think it was worth the money. Is this glare that I'm talking about referred to as the senn VEIL??? or is it something else?

It must be something else -- maybe your ear shape is a bad match with the HD 555 geometry/acoustics... I'm not a veil advocate, but I guess what other people perceive as veil is rather the unspectacular treble presentation compared to other headphones.

Yes, maybe you need Grados for your type of music and your sonic perception. Or a different/better source or amp?

 

[Tech2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ The sennheiser veil is what you hear after listening to a pair of grados and going back to your senns. Biggie.

+1

I have the same issue immediately going from my 325i to my 555. If I stay with the 555s for a while, all is good. Still a bit dark or veiled, but tolerable.

 

[ktm]

The sound isn't really a veil. The best description I've heard is Grado puts you onstage, Senns put you back a few rows. The soundstage is wider, the vocalist is in front of you, and the band is spread out behind the singer. I've had the hd590 and grado sr125. I've just recieved a pair of hd650's with a Cardas cable, wich helps out with a better highs. I also tried replacing the foam lining with some black pantyhose. This made the highs louder and more defined. I had to turn down the volume, wich of course made the mids and bass have less impact. I went back to the foam. I have also ordered a new tube amp. I will try the pantyhose trick again after beefing up the low/midrange with the warm tube sound.

 

[Imyourzero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiofreak i just bought HD595's a few days ago and noticed this exact thing right out of the box. they were a real issue for me, because they made songs and voices very dim and muddy, which is a huge part of music at least in my collection

Thank God someone else noticed the same thing that I did! The thing with the voices is the primary reason I sold my first (and second!) set of 595s. The first time (120 ohm version) I didn't like them at all, but I was a Head-Fi noob and didn't have an amp. They sounded bad straight out of my Audigy 2, go figure.

Anyway, I sold them.

Tried buying them again a few months later (50 ohm version) after I had obtained an amp and a better source. Was much more pleased with their sound, even from the Audigy 2 (hey, I had to test it just for comparison). However, the problem with the masked voices remained no matter what equipment I listened to them with. That one issue bugged me enough to the point that I sold that pair as well. Too bad, because other than that issue I really like the 595s. Great soundstage, plenty of bass, and very comfortable.

What's weird is that my HD-580 doesn't exhibit that issue with voices. What sounded dim and congested on the 595s actually sounded clear and open on the 580s. However the 580s have that good old midbass hump that turns some people away. I guess you just can't have it all!

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX Both a Zu Mobius or a Silver Dragon can fix that. My slight preference going to the Zu for having a little bit tighter bass.

I agree with this. I listened to the HD650 with both of these cables and there was no veil with either. I'm not a fan of the Senn sound, but it's not because of any veil impressions.

But the Wall of Shame at J&R underpowers their Senns so badly, it didn't seem like a veil for that poor dented HD600 they had on display - it was more like a moldy fruitcake wedged between your ears and the drivers lol.

 

[donunus]

hmm so many replies and no one has mentioned that this was a problem that can be solved by burn in. I guess i'm screwed

 

[LTUCCI1924]

I have found the Sennheiser veil to be that the mid range is somewhat laid back. I found it to be a big mistake to A/B the Sennheiser to a Grado. The upfront sound of the Grado at first seems to be a better sound.

More exciting and dynamic but after a while I found it to be a lot more fatiguing over the Sennheiser sound. Also after a while the Sennheiser sound is more relaxing and pleasant especially for long listening sessions.

I like the Grado sound but also like the Sennheiser sound. I just know not to A/B the two and for a quick one at that.

So for me its would I like the Grado upfront exciting sound for a short while with some comfort issues or would I like the Sennheiser pleasant very enjoyable sound for hour after hour with great comfort.

 

[markl]

The "veil" IME is not related to the frequency repsonse of the Senns. It's a general haziness and wooly-ness that covers the entire presentation, giving a damped-down and distancing effect, that is present everywhere, not just in the highs. I would attribute the effect to the design of the driver, the materials used in its composition. I suspect what people are hearing is actually the "sound" of the Senn driver material itself, its physical characteristics that are acting subtly on its ability to reproduce the sound. That's why it effects all the Senns, they most likely use the same driver material in virtually all their cans (even my PX200s have the veil). So, I don't see it as a deliberate dip in the EQ in some restricted part of the range.

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTUCCI1924 I have found the Sennheiser veil to be that the mid range is somewhat laid back. I found it to be a big mistake to A/B the Sennheiser to a Grado. The upfront sound of the Grado at first seems to be a better sound. More exciting and dynamic but after a while I found it to be a lot more fatiguing over the Sennheiser sound. Also after a while the Sennheiser sound is more relaxing and pleasant especially for long listening sessions. I like the Grado sound but also like the Sennheiser sound. I just know not to A/B the two and for a quick one at that. So for me its would I like the Grado upfront exciting sound for a short while with some comfort issues or would I like the Sennheiser pleasant very enjoyable sound for hour after hour with great comfort.

everyone is answering the title of the thread but what about the peak that i am talking about? For the songs that are affected with this peak, my 555s are more fatiguing than the sr60 with comfies which are slightly darker, duller and more unoffensive but more forward and fatter sounding. well try listening to a modern recording for ex. keanes hopes and fears.

 

[ken36]

I went and spent $350 for the HD650 headphones even though I too felt something is lacking in some vocals. What is it? Some say the veil. I don't know what it is. What I do know is that when I switch to the er-4s for a while, I get tired of the harsh highs and run back to the hd650 headphones and all of a sudden they sound good again.

 

[ephemere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl The "veil" IME is not related to the frequency repsonse of the Senns. It's a general haziness and wooly-ness that covers the entire presentation, giving a damped-down and distancing effect, that is present everywhere, not just in the highs. I would attribute the effect to the design of the driver, the materials used in its composition.

I agree with your assessment. Frequency response gets way too much credit on this forum.

 

[Andrea]

Ops, what's happened?

See next...

 

[Andrea]

errr... see next...