[guido]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130549586272&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I wanna pitch the Quadral Titan on behalf of the absolutely best price/performance ratio. Plus the ribbon tweeter makes for an excellent emission-characteristic (is that the english word?) so the ceiling is much less influental than with a regular round-emission tweeter. Sure, it's no Grande Utopia or the likes but we are talking about a really, really good speaker.
Generally I find Quadral to offer an incredible P/P ratio when compared to many other manufacturers. *glares at Dynaudio and B&W*

 
Ribbon dispersion can actually be problematic. Ones that are really limited in terms of their vertical output can actually limit the perceived height of the stage, even if ceiling reflections are removed as potential issues. The best RAAL and Raven ribbon tweeters actually have pretty wide dispersion. Lesser ribbons I find to be hit or miss, and they can often be outperformed by the best ring radiators or the good old Esostar.
 
I know I keep harping on this, but I think the Vapor Cirrus is the king of price/performance. It has an insane level of construction and component quality for the money. At least as far as two-way monitors are concerned, I think it's untouchable value wise.
 
The Grand Utopia is one of the most over-hyped speakers I've ever experienced. When I heard them they were some $90K, (probably more now) and even backed with TOTL ARC equipment, the sound was mediocre. Every JM Lab I've heard has been incredibly underwhelming.

 

[FoxSpirit]

That Vapor Cirrus looks really, really nice. Too bad nobody has made a standmount that gets the extension of a floorstander. *)
I'm not asking for the full body, just the low extension.
But alas, nobody has been able to do that, at least none I know of
 
*)And I mean a "proper" standmount and not monsters like a 'La Sphere'

 

[tkteo]

Quote:

That Vapor Cirrus looks really, really nice. Too bad nobody has made a standmount that gets the extension of a floorstander. *)
I'm not asking for the full body, just the low extension.
But alas, nobody has been able to do that, at least none I know of
 
*)And I mean a "proper" standmount and not monsters like a 'La Sphere'

What about the Guru QM10? I think it goes down to 30Hz. Would that be considered low extension enough?

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

That Vapor Cirrus looks really, really nice. Too bad nobody has made a standmount that gets the extension of a floorstander. *)
I'm not asking for the full body, just the low extension.
But alas, nobody has been able to do that, at least none I know of
 
*)And I mean a "proper" standmount and not monsters like a 'La Sphere'

 
The Vapor has plenty of usable response into the low 30s which to my ears is good enough. A lot of smaller floorstanders may claim 20Hz or 25Hz, but put them in a room and they are down 10dB at that level. You have to move a lot of air to really hit hard in the lowest octave. It's just not physically possible for a stand mount to do that.
 
 

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I would wager there isn't one particular speaker that's the best... In my mind though, if a speaker is to claim such a distinction, it would have to be a 2 way planar type with plasma tweeter and crossed over to a rotary woofer (down to 0hz).
 
Such a combination would warrant quite a force to be reckoned with as far as transient response and accurate coverage of the spectrum.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I would wager there isn't one particular speaker that's the best... In my mind though, if a speaker is to claim such a distinction, it would have to be a 2 way planar type with plasma tweeter and crossed over to a rotary woofer (down to 0hz).
 
Such a combination would warrant quite a force to be reckoned with as far as transient response and accurate coverage of the spectrum.

There's no possible way you could make that sound of a piece, it would be a disjointed mess. The ultimate speaker would be some type of vibrating sphere, a little bit like the MBL Radialstrahlers if you could some how suspend them in mid-air, and they were full range. Basically a floating omni crossover-less point-source. Unfortunately I think that will remain science fiction for awhile.  

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

^If crossed over properly there would be no problem as the plasma tweeter has a transient response that can match/exceed that of a planar transducer, and would only be engaged at the very high registers of the spectrum (which is hard to discern with the unaided ear anyway). The rotary woofer would, likewise, be a presence at the extreme depths of the spectrum, whereby the sound is more felt than heard and offer the relatively low levels of distortion inherent in a planar speaker.
 
Once more, cross over would be key, as would positioning, room treatment, and room shape. Get all that right and I dare say you would have an excellent replicator of pre-recorded audio.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Once more, cross over would be key, as would positioning, room treatment, and room shape. Get all that right and I dare say you would have an excellent replicator of pre-recorded audio.

You could have full range response, yes but there's a lot more to speaker design than just something that does response from top to bottom. A crossover is a compromise, there's no getting around that. The ultimate transparent speaker by definition must be directly driven by the amplifier. Some of today's speakers make attempts by direct driving the tweeter or the midrange, but none can do it all without the other compromises of a typical full range driver. I also find the sub sonic response to be utterly pointless. 12" woofers in a well designed cabinet are more than capable of prodigious output below 20Hz. What song could you possibly need 10Hz to play?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

*Glances at pipe organ CDs*
 
I can imagine a few songs that would benefit from the addition of such frequencies ^_^
But the real advantage of a rotary woofer is it's incredibly low distortion and flat output at those lower registers... something woofers cannot claim to achieve easily.
 
While I will concede that a full range speaker driven directly offers the most straight forward route in getting everything to mesh and function properly holistically speaking, I also know that some of the best speakers in the world use cross overs. Once more, I think that if done right, it would exceed most others in what it has to offer.

 

[El_Doug]

a lot of movie special effects - explosions, etc. - go down to 10hz (though how much of that is designed by the sound engineer, and how much is rubbish noise, I cannot say).  of course, a dedicated sub is typically used in this case
 
as to your first comment, I couldn't agree more!  it is a wonder to me why so many people will spend $50k on speakers with passive crossovers, when an active crossover with custom tweakable room correction before, say, three separate amps per speaker (for 6 total) into 3-way speakers costing $5k would blow the former speakers out of the water. 
 
Quote:

You could have full range response, yes but there's a lot more to speaker design than just something that does response from top to bottom. A crossover is a compromise, there's no getting around that. The ultimate transparent speaker by definition must be directly driven by the amplifier. Some of today's speakers make attempts by direct driving the tweeter or the midrange, but none can do it all without the other compromises of a typical full range driver. I also find the sub sonic response to be utterly pointless. 12" woofers in a well designed cabinet are more than capable of prodigious output below 20Hz. What song could you possibly need 10Hz to play?

 

 

[Dynobot]

 
[size=large]Dynaudio Evidence Master[/size]

 

[Dynobot]

 
Adam Olympus Sound System

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

 
[size=large]Dynaudio Evidence Master[/size]

I've heard these, they are certainly good and their output capability is prodigious, but at least in the system and room I heard them in, the FR was a bit messy, with the bass sounding separate from the rest of the range. Definitely not as good as the big boys.

 

[audiogamma]

I think JM Labs Focal have the best line-up of anyone. Amazing from their bookshelf speakers, CMS (and twins) studio monitors and their high-end.