What are the best headhones for me?

[Hifi Man]

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[Hifi Man]

Quote:

Okay, so just to clarify briefly, here are the specifics of your intended use:  
 

1. You plan on using the cans you get both at the computer and while working around the house. 
2. While around the house, you use an iPod as your primary source. 
3. You plan on getting a DAC/amp (our terminology for an external soundcard and amp) for use with your computer. 
4. You do not plan on using your external DAC/amp with your portable source. 

 
If these are correct, awesome. If not, please correct me so we can keep moving towards the right answer. With that said, I have a few follow-up questions for you: 
 

1. Do you plan on ever using these with your cellphone or tablet? If so, what model(s) do you have? 
2. Which iPod do you use? 
3. On the computer or from a phone/tablet, do you ever anticipate the need for a mic? (I.e., will you use them for talking at all?)
4. What kind of computer do you have? PC or Mac? 

 
This will help us make sure we point you towards something that will do what you need in each scenario. I'll check back on ya tonight!

1. Yes, I plan on using them for my computer and my iPod.
2. Yes
3. No. However, if the headphones scale up with a dac, I may consider it for my computer. I don't want to have to charge something besides my iPod though. The idea is that this is portable.
4. No
 
1. I have an iPad, iPod touch (generation 1), iPod classic (current model), iPhone (generation 3)
2. All of the iPods, and sometimes my phone.
3. No. 
4. PC

 

[Theogenes]

Quote:

1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Maybe (only if the headphones can be enhanced with it, and it will take some time of saving up money)
4. Incorrect. I think it would be alright to have a portable amp for my headphones. I think it would be the best option, although, only if it truly enhances the performance of the headphones; then it's worth it. 
 
However, I don't want to disclude the possibility of non amp driven headphones. I'd like to understand what the benefits would actually be, and if it's worth it.
 
My cellphone is a 3g iPhone. My tablet is an iPad. I don't anticipate the need for a mic. I have a PC.
 
I also use an iPod g1 touch, and a 160 gig iPod classic.
 
I think it's crucial to mention, the reason I'm seeking an upgrade is because my headphones sound very flat with death metal. I'm looking for headphones that deliver vibrant sound, that can handle extreme music, but also sound good with more laid back music too. 

 
Awesome. Okay, let's dive in with a couple of quick provisos up front: first, finding a DAC for an Apple product is vastly more difficult and typically more expensive than a comparable unit for Android due to Apple extortion licensing fees. With that said, there are a few units that will work with them-- but if you have an upgrade right around the corner, that might complicate things a bit. It seems like you're an Apple kinda guy, so I'm going to assume you'll be going with an iPhone for your next upgrade unless you say otherwise. Also, I'm an Android and PC guy, so there are going to be a lot of people who are vastly more knowledgeable than I, and I'll be writing solely from a bit of research and reputation. I'm going to make an effort to point out anything about which I'm unsure, but again, I'm no Apple expert, so it might be good to vet some of these ideas with somebody that has first-hand experience. 
 
Also, to answer your question: while people can mean different things by the term 'punchy,' they typically mean it has better-than-average bass impact-- which is great for blast beats and double-bass beats of all kinds. It adds to the fun and engagement of listening to metal, IMO. 
 
DAC/Amp Options: 
VentureCraft GD-03: definitely the 'bang for the buck' winner here at $20. As it was made for the 3GS, you'll have difficulty using it with some other models, but for a product that was originally $200 and is now $20 and fits what you have... Hard not to be pleased. It seems to be an amp only, no DAC, but apparently the DAC in the 3G/S wasn't too bad, so you'd probably be okay. Don't think you'd be able to use it with a computer, but again... It's $20. If you can't figure out what you want, get this until you do, IMO. (Other colors seem to still be available if you're interested). Another HF'er posted about compatibility with other Apple devices here, for reference. Also, this thing is an external battery, so it can charge your phone. Neato. 
 
LOD into external amp: a line-out dock simply provides a line-out to an external amp (if I understand it correctly, and I think I do). A lot of DAC/amp combo units can be used as amps only, which might give you some additional flexibility for using a single device for both your iPhone and computer. 
 
VentureCraft GO DAP X: Way above budget at nearly $500, but works as DAC/amp for both an iPhone and computer. 
 
Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo: DAC only, very pricey. Highly regarded, but priced even higher. You'd need to get an amp to go with it too. Probably wanna skip it for now. 
 
Fostex HP-P1: Also a budget-breaker at almost $700, but it's a DAC/amp. I think it also only works with an iPhone, not with a computer. Skip it. 
 
Summary: if I was in your situation, I would probably just get a LOD and a DAC/amp combo unit that allowed for amplification only when being used from the phone and allowed for use as both a DAC and amp when plugged into your computer. There are quite a few of them, but I would highly recommend you check out the Meier Audio PCSTEP (here) or the iBasso D-Zero (here). The D-Zero is the best bang-for-the-buck portable DAC/amp I know of (I have one and bought one for my mom too), and the PCSTEP is the best sounding portable unit I've yet encountered (better than the Apex Glacier, iBasso D6, iBasso D-Zero, and O2/ODAC combo to my ears, and cheaper than all but the D-Zero when you factor in shipping). Again, though, the cans you're looking at presently don't really require an amp-- but you won't have to struggle to hear the improvement of a DAC/amp combo from either your soundcard or your phone. They make a pretty obvious improvement to the sound. 
 
Headphone Options: 
In short, you have tons. As a fellow headbanger (listened to Broken Hope's Grotesque Blessings on the way into work today, forgot how much I loved that album), I'd recommend the HD25, as it's just great for metal in general. The M80 is close, but I think the HD25 is just a bit clearer, and thus wins out in my book. I haven't heard all the cans recommended here, but I'd say that the Beyers are probably worth a look, as my T5p is my most listened-to headphone (not counting IEMs). I would guess (although I could be absolutely mistaken here, and would welcome feedback from anyone who has done an actual comparison) that the DT 770 LE would be a bit clearer than the HD25, at the expense of a bit of portability (in terms of size), isolation, and durability. The Momentum might be great, but mine hasn't arrived yet, so I can't speak to its appropriateness for metal. And of course, there are quite a few more...
 
TL;DR Version: 
Lots of options, significantly limited by use of the Apple device, so I'd go with a LOD to a portable DAC/amp unit that can be used as a standalone amp. If I had to pick only one setup to recommend, I'd say LOD > PCSTEP > HD25 (or Amperior, if you find a good deal on one). This would put you a bit above your budget ($10 + $280 shipped + $100-150 used), but give you a great-sounding and very flexible setup. If you're adamant about staying under the $300 initial budget, I'd say LOD > D-Zero > HD25 ($10 + $109 [before shipping, about $30 to ship to US] + $100-$150 used). 
 
I hope we're helping and not driving you crazy, bud . 

 

[Theogenes]

Guy in the F/S forum has a pair of refurb Amperiors for sale for $159 here. No affiliation with the seller,but seems like a pretty good price. Only problem is that they're that less-than-gorgeous blue color Sennheiser inscrutably chose to use...

 

[Hifi Man]

Quote:

 
Awesome. Okay, let's dive in with a couple of quick provisos up front: first, finding a DAC for an Apple product is vastly more difficult and typically more expensive than a comparable unit for Android due to Apple extortion licensing fees. With that said, there are a few units that will work with them-- but if you have an upgrade right around the corner, that might complicate things a bit. It seems like you're an Apple kinda guy, so I'm going to assume you'll be going with an iPhone for your next upgrade unless you say otherwise. Also, I'm an Android and PC guy, so there are going to be a lot of people who are vastly more knowledgeable than I, and I'll be writing solely from a bit of research and reputation. I'm going to make an effort to point out anything about which I'm unsure, but again, I'm no Apple expert, so it might be good to vet some of these ideas with somebody that has first-hand experience. 
 
Also, to answer your question: while people can mean different things by the term 'punchy,' they typically mean it has better-than-average bass impact-- which is great for blast beats and double-bass beats of all kinds. It adds to the fun and engagement of listening to metal, IMO. 
 
DAC/Amp Options: 
VentureCraft GD-03: definitely the 'bang for the buck' winner here at $20. As it was made for the 3GS, you'll have difficulty using it with some other models, but for a product that was originally $200 and is now $20 and fits what you have... Hard not to be pleased. It seems to be an amp only, no DAC, but apparently the DAC in the 3G/S wasn't too bad, so you'd probably be okay. Don't think you'd be able to use it with a computer, but again... It's $20. If you can't figure out what you want, get this until you do, IMO. (Other colors seem to still be available if you're interested). Another HF'er posted about compatibility with other Apple devices here, for reference. Also, this thing is an external battery, so it can charge your phone. Neato. 
 
LOD into external amp: a line-out dock simply provides a line-out to an external amp (if I understand it correctly, and I think I do). A lot of DAC/amp combo units can be used as amps only, which might give you some additional flexibility for using a single device for both your iPhone and computer. 
 
VentureCraft GO DAP X: Way above budget at nearly $500, but works as DAC/amp for both an iPhone and computer. 
 
Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo: DAC only, very pricey. Highly regarded, but priced even higher. You'd need to get an amp to go with it too. Probably wanna skip it for now. 
 
Fostex HP-P1: Also a budget-breaker at almost $700, but it's a DAC/amp. I think it also only works with an iPhone, not with a computer. Skip it. 
 
Summary: if I was in your situation, I would probably just get a LOD and a DAC/amp combo unit that allowed for amplification only when being used from the phone and allowed for use as both a DAC and amp when plugged into your computer. There are quite a few of them, but I would highly recommend you check out the Meier Audio PCSTEP (here) or the iBasso D-Zero (here). The D-Zero is the best bang-for-the-buck portable DAC/amp I know of (I have one and bought one for my mom too), and the PCSTEP is the best sounding portable unit I've yet encountered (better than the Apex Glacier, iBasso D6, iBasso D-Zero, and O2/ODAC combo to my ears, and cheaper than all but the D-Zero when you factor in shipping). Again, though, the cans you're looking at presently don't really require an amp-- but you won't have to struggle to hear the improvement of a DAC/amp combo from either your soundcard or your phone. They make a pretty obvious improvement to the sound. 
 
Headphone Options: 
In short, you have tons. As a fellow headbanger (listened to Broken Hope's Grotesque Blessings on the way into work today, forgot how much I loved that album), I'd recommend the HD25, as it's just great for metal in general. The M80 is close, but I think the HD25 is just a bit clearer, and thus wins out in my book. I haven't heard all the cans recommended here, but I'd say that the Beyers are probably worth a look, as my T5p is my most listened-to headphone (not counting IEMs). I would guess (although I could be absolutely mistaken here, and would welcome feedback from anyone who has done an actual comparison) that the DT 770 LE would be a bit clearer than the HD25, at the expense of a bit of portability (in terms of size), isolation, and durability. The Momentum might be great, but mine hasn't arrived yet, so I can't speak to its appropriateness for metal. And of course, there are quite a few more...
 
TL;DR Version: 
Lots of options, significantly limited by use of the Apple device, so I'd go with a LOD to a portable DAC/amp unit that can be used as a standalone amp. If I had to pick only one setup to recommend, I'd say LOD > PCSTEP > HD25 (or Amperior, if you find a good deal on one). This would put you a bit above your budget ($10 + $280 shipped + $100-150 used), but give you a great-sounding and very flexible setup. If you're adamant about staying under the $300 initial budget, I'd say LOD > D-Zero > HD25 ($10 + $109 [before shipping, about $30 to ship to US] + $100-$150 used). 
 
I hope we're helping and not driving you crazy, bud . 

That VentureCraft GD-03 amplifier looks like it would be great, if only it wasn't made for the iPhone 3gs. I barely use that for music, I mainly use my iPod classic. Those other amplifiers look very expensive, therefor not an option. What about those amplifiers like FiiO E6 portable headphone amplifier that I always see "frequently bought items" on amazon? As a matter of fact, I think if I can pay more for a headphone that's efficient and doesn't require portable amplification, then that would actually be great. 
 
The HD25 seem like they would be a good option in terms of portability. They appear to be on ear headphones. Since I'm a bonafide music junky, I'm just slightly concerned that they would hurt my ear cartilage (kind of like my worn out EA2 headphones do). Also, how do they stack up to the v-moda m-100s? If I were to go all out, and spend 300-400 dollars then which one would I want? I don't want to spend so much that I regret it, because I just want headphones that suit me, but I want to make an investment, because these will be used non-stop. Also, the amperior headphones don't look like the ones for me. I don't need a built in microphone (I have gaming headphones already).
 
If I were to get the beyerdynamic headphones, would this http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E11-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B0053KWDES/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_y be a good amplifier? These are the ones my brother uses and he has a dac and amp on a computer setup.
 
Is a dac necessary? I've never used one before, and I'm not sure what it actually does.
 
It looks like it's down to the sennheiser and vmoda headphones, unless someone wants to convince me that that beautiful looking AKG 550 headphone is portable and can be driven by an iPod alone.
 
Thanks, you're not driving me crazy I read through everything carefully, but sometimes I get a little obsessive and over think things, and can't make up my mind. I think I sometimes don't think read through everything all the way, but I'm trying to make double sure that I do, because it's important. I think I thought out everything i want to say pretty thoroughly, but I often realize I type things I didn't mean to type. Anyways... 

 

[Theogenes]

"Is a dac necessary? I've never used one before, and I'm not sure what it actually does."
 
-Nope, it is absolutely not necessary. However, I think it often provides a bigger improvement in sound than the amp does alone-- and none of the headphones you're looking at require an amp, so the improvements from amplification alone will be less than a good DAC and amp (especially from your computer). A DAC is simply a digital-to-analog converter, so it's the hardware that actually converts all the zeroes and ones into an analog waveform. As such, it has a pretty large role in the quality of the sound you get, good or bad. And in this case, since you're looking at headphones that benefit from but don't necessarily require amplification, I think you'll arguably get more improvement in SQ from a DAC than an amp alone. But again, to answer your question-- it is not strictly necessary at all. 
 
 
Fiio E6/E11: 
 
-Haven't heard the E6, but I have the E11, and I just don't ever use it. It's a neat idea, and I can see how it could be useful in some scenarios, but I don't find the sound quality to be all that great and since I have much better options around, I never use it at all. With that said, something like an E17 might not be a bad idea. It typically gets really good reviews for the money and can be used as a DAC, an amp, or both at once. I don't know how it stacks up to the iBasso D-Zero, but people do have a lot of good things to say about it. (I will quickly note that if, by any chance, you're considering going to an Android as your next device, you'd want to make sure you get one that is compatible with the Androids that output digital audio. But if you're sticking with Apple as I'd assumed, you can safely ignore this.)
 
 
"Those other amplifiers look very expensive, therefor not an option."
 
-Yep, Apple compatibility costs significantly more. Drives me nuts.
 
 
HD25 vs M100 vs Amperior: 
 
-Yes, the HD25 (and Amperior) are on-ear headphones, and they have a pretty high clamping force as well, so some people dislike them because they hurt their ears. Personally, while I don't find them to be as comfortable as some other headphones, I don't find the HD25 to be unusably unpleasant to wear. (Parts of my ears have been calcified from cauliflower ear I got while wrestling, so I don't know if that makes me more or less susceptible to discomfort in that area). I haven't heard the M100, but it gets great reviews as a basshead can. I would comfortably assume, based on the experience I've had with the M80, that the M100 would be very comfortable and ergonomically stellar. I think V-Moda has set the benchmark for ergonomics and overall design, even if I like the sound of other headphones a bit more. As for the Amperior, I wouldn't let the remote on the cable dissuade you too much, as the V-Modas have one as well, and you can get a remoteless cable for the Amperior as well. Basically, it's a recommendation simply because it's an upgraded HD25. 
 
 
"If I were to go all out, and spend 300-400 dollars then which one would I want?"
 
-As is customary in the world according to Head-Fi, spending more doesn't really solve issues generally, it just gives you more attractive options. In that range, something like the Momentum or the M100 becomes a more viable option, and you start to get close to another level of performance altogether with something like the HiFiMan (ha!) HE-400, which is pretty much universally praised as outstanding for it's price range. However, something like the HE-400 really does require amplification, unlike the other headphones we've discussed, and as a planar dynamic it needs a fair bit of current to operate. (Note: even my Audez'e LCD-2, which supposedly requires more current to sound great than the HE-400, can be powered straight out of a cellphone jack-- but you can tell the music just isn't anywhere near as lively, detailed, or engaging as it is with a proper amp). If you can stretch to something like an HE-400, you don't plan on using it portably (it's too big and isn't closed-back), and you can at least budget to get a better amp in the near future, that might be your best bet. Of the headphones we've discussed, I think the HE-400 would be pretty much universally considered to be the closest to the "high fidelity" ideal. Check out some reviews and see what you think. You can sometimes find them in the F/S section for $300-350, which would leave you a bit more breathing room in your budget for an amp. 
 
Check back with ya later tonight

 

[Hifi Man]

"If I were to go all out, and spend 300-400 dollars then which one would I want?"
 
-As is customary in the world according to Head-Fi, spending more doesn't really solve issues generally, it just gives you more attractive options. In that range, something like the Momentum or the M100 becomes a more viable option, and you start to get close to another level of performance altogether with something like the HiFiMan (ha!) HE-400, which is pretty much universally praised as outstanding for it's price range. However, something like the HE-400 really does require amplification, unlike the other headphones we've discussed, and as a planar dynamic it needs a fair bit of current to operate. (Note: even my Audez'e LCD-2, which supposedly requires more current to sound great than the HE-400, can be powered straight out of a cellphone jack-- but you can tell the music just isn't anywhere near as lively, detailed, or engaging as it is with a proper amp). If you can stretch to something like an HE-400, you don't plan on using it portably (it's too big and isn't closed-back), and you can at least budget to get a better amp in the near future, that might be your best bet. Of the headphones we've discussed, I think the HE-400 would be pretty much universally considered to be the closest to the "high fidelity" ideal. Check out some reviews and see what you think. You can sometimes find them in the F/S section for $300-350, which would leave you a bit more breathing room in your budget for an amp. 
 
Check back with ya later tonight

Yeah! II did try the Hifiman he-400 headphones at one point. I sent them back, because I didn't like being tethered to my computer, and not being able to use them portable, so it didn't seem worth keeping them. I plan on getting them or grados again in the future for stationary use at my computer, but I want to get a separate pair in the mean time for wearing with just my iPod. 

 

[Hifi Man]

Okay, I'm convinced of the sennheiser amperior headphones are the best choice. Although they're on ear, they're the right price, portable - non amp driven, and they have the right sound signature.  I'll probably get the amperior headphones by tonight. I'm pretty much read to make a purchase. I know there's a ton of other headphones too, and I think I'm making the right decision and not missing out if I get these. 
 
My one concern - they might hurt my ears.

 

[Hifi Man]

Okay, I just ordered the amperior headphones. Thanks for your help guys. 

 

[Theogenes]

Boom!! That's quite the trigger-finger you've got there!! 

 
Seriously, man, let us know what you think!! (I've been guilty of eyeing a couple pairs myself, so I'm keen to hear your thoughts). 
 
Hope you love 'em!!!! 

 

[Hifi Man]

I'm filled with anticipation for these headphones. However, if these things start to hurt my ears at all I'm going to return them with the 30 day Amazon return policy and look at over ear headphones as my next choice. They have to be comfortable. I plan on an all day listening marathon with these headphones once I get them just to make sure they're what I want. I think if they don't work then you aught to let me know what you think of your momentums  
 
I just have an inquiry, because it's not too late to change my mind. Headphones like the AKG 550, Momentum, Audio technica, and shure would NOT be better choices, because they require an amp, right? If those would actually be more comfortable, and sound better and not require an amp then I don't know why I'm buying the Amperiors. But if these are the best non amplified headphones for good sound quality then they're for me.
 
Please tell me I'm correct... because it's okay if I made a mistake, I just need to fix it if I did.

 

[dweaver]

None of the headphones you mentioned require an amp, some might sound slightly better but none need an amp to get the most from them. I am surprised no one suggested the MDR1R from Sony. Comfy as all get out with 2 great cables.

 

[Hifi Man]

Quote:

None of the headphones you mentioned require an amp, some might sound slightly better but none need an amp to get the most from them. I am surprised no one suggested the MDR1R from Sony. Comfy as all get out with 2 great cables.

I guess the question is, am I getting the best sounding unamped, good for metal music, comfortable headphone for under 400 dollars? If not which one should I be getting? I don't want to disclude the headphones I literally just purchased already, but I'm curious to know because this doubt is very heavy on my mind.

 

[Hifi Man]

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[Theogenes]

Quote:

I guess the question is, am I getting the best sounding unamped, good for metal music, comfortable headphone for under 400 dollars? If not which one should I be getting? I don't want to disclude the headphones I literally just purchased already, but I'm curious to know because this doubt is very heavy on my mind.

 
Doubt is normal. I felt like a goober pretty regularly after pretty much all my headphone purchases... until I got to hear them . (At which point I realized that I actually had been a complete goober only once.) Of the criteria you mentioned (best sounding while unamped, great w/ metal music, and comfortable), I feel pretty confident in the first two at least-- the HD25 sounds fantastic even when unamped, and it just pairs particularly well with metal music IMO. As far as comfort, I'm sure there are more comfortable headphones out there-- but I'm not sure there are ones that will isolate as well and stay on your head while moving around. The crappy thing about doubt is that it always finds a way to slither in-- if you cancel the order for the Amperiors, you will inevitably doubt yourself and wonder if they weren't really the ones you wanted. 
 
Try the Amperiors. If you don't like them, return or sell them and try something else. If absolutely nothing else, listening to them will give you another baseline on which to judge other potential headphone candidates, even if you utterly despise them for some reason. . 
 
Also, I just got my Momentums in about an hour ago, and my initial impressions are good in terms of the build and looks, and actually much better than I anticipated in terms of sound quality-- much clearer, and while the bass is most certainly heavily emphasized, it's not obnoxious a-la Beats & Co. My only concern is that (against all reason and logic) they seem to bother my left ear a good bit more than any of my other cans, HD25 included. (I had surgery on my left ear several years ago to repair damage from wrestling and submission grappling, and it's still a bit misshapen). Of course, the most important and relevant thing I've said about the Momentums thus far is that I've only had them for an hour-- so any impressions here are vastly too premature to mean anything, really. But hey, you asked, and I love talking about new toys
 
Post your thoughts on the Amperiors when you get 'em!! What color didja get?