[Giogio]

 
Hi Giogio,
 
 If I wish to use my BT mouse instead, then I re-enable the tablet's built-in BT and everything works normally with no conflicts.
 
I am now convinced that your Logitech SetPoint drivers conflict with the memory space of the Azio dongle.  Therefore, you can't run both simultaneously.  You would need to get advice from Logitech to help you move the SetPoint drivers to another memory location.  This would eliminate the conflicts you are experiencing when you try to use both BT dongles simultaneously.
 
I think your issues are largely self-inflicted due to forcing the CSR Harmony software to work with the Logitech SetPoint software.

Hi Class D.
 
I am a bit frustrated because after all these messages it seems I still can't get to explain to you things in a way that you can understand them.
You say that I "try to use both BT Dongles". I have ONE Dongle, the Azio. I have NO built-in BT in my PC. The only source of BT is Azio.
And SetPoint is NOT a BT Stack. It's a universal program by Logitech used for ALL kind of peripherals, BT, radio, or even wired. It does NOT interfere with the Windows BT Stack or with any third Party BT Stack, because it is NOT specific for BT.
The Logitech Bluetooth Mouse I have does not need any extra Dongle. It connects through the Azio Dongle.
 
So, in my case it is not so easy as in yours, I can not just "enable" a built-in BT and disable it when I want. I have NO built-in BT!
And I can NOT use two BT Stacks with one dongle (for example, the Windows BT Stack and the CSR Harmony BT Stack).
As soon as I install the CSR, it AUTOMATICALLY disables the Windows BT Stack.
So, to connect the mouse with the Windows Stack I have to uninstall the CSR.
To have Aptx I have to install CSR.
I cannot install and uninstall a software all the time, right?
So, there IS a conflict, and it is caused by CSR. CSR does not allow SetPoint to see the mouse.
And this cannot be solved. So I am not forcing CSR to work with SetPoint. CSR is forcing me not to use Setpoint!!!
 
I hope that now it is more clear. Sorry for the caps, no shouting or angry background, just making things more clear
So I think that what you say about memory conflict does not apply anymore, but correct me if I am wrong.
 
 
Now I have bought a Logitech radio frequency mouse. The Mouse is perfectly recognized by SetPoint ALSO when CSR is installed, which is the proof that the problem is not SetPoint, the problem is that CSR "closes" the BT peripherals in its own Stack and in the case of the BT mouse CSR prevent SetPoint to see the mouse.
SetPoint is working perfectly, there is not a conflict between the two programs, it is only a matter of how the CSR BT Stack manages the BT devices.
 

  @Giogio - I too couldn't get Logitech's SetPoint to work properly w/CSR's S/W (this was with either the Azio or Orico AptX dongles). Basically it wouldn't display the advanced features to customize my K810 keyboard (this was on Win7 64 and then later 8.1 PC). I had to revert to connecting the K810 to a Kinivo (that doesn't feature AptX) and my BT cans to the Azio.
 
@Class D - In my case it's not that the SetPoint won't run w/the CSR stack, it does, but for whatever reason, the advanced features are not enabled/supported. It's almost as if the Azio/Orico aren't loading the correct BT driver. 

I have not only bought a radio frequency mouse but also an Avantree Priva BT Adapter.
 I did not yet tried it, but if it gives good sound and good range, I will only use Azio as emergency, and I will eventually buy another BT mouse. In any case mine is a bit too small. I have realized that I have big hands and I need a big mouse. And for how I use the mouse and how I sit, I need a high/tall mouse, with the back part higher and the front part much lower, and the wheel as much as possible on the front.
I did not find such a mouse.
Well, I have found a Razor which may be a bit like that, but, very expensive. Gamer mouse. I do not need it.
And another, called Oyster Mouse, which can be used in different angles, but it is also extremely expensive.
I have bought a Penclic, but it is not practical at all. Though I notice how it is better for the Carpal Tunnel Syndrome to have the hand in another position.
So probably this Oyster is really the best solution around. We'll see if I decide to spend so much money. After all, Health is important.
 
But, coming back to SetPoint, once again: it DOES run with CSR. My problem is EXACTLY the same which you also have with your Keyboard.

 

[Class D]

Okay GioGio,
 
Previously you had a computer (laptop???) with no BT built-in, a Logitech BT mouse with no dongle, an Azio USB Micro Bluetooth Adapter V4.0 EDR and aptX (BTD-V401), Logitech Setpoint software to customize your mouse buttons, keyboard F-keys and hot-keys, control tracking speed, and configure other device-specific settings. It can also notify you of your device's battery status, and whether Caps Lock and Num Lock are on.
 
Now you have bought a Logitech radio frequency mouse, presumably it comes with a dongle to provide the non-BT radio connection to the mouse.  Setpoint works with this mouse as described above.
 
Are you saying that when you install the Azio dongle that the Setpoint software crashes or otherwise stops working fully?  Do the CSR Aptx drivers load?
 
If you now have a Logitech dongle for your radio mouse, then it shouldn't interfere with your Azio BT dongle.  Both should run just fine.  This is my configuration with my Win 7 (64) desktop.  It has no built-in BT.  I have an older Hewlett Packard wireless mouse (non-BT).  The Azio dongle with CSR BT Aptx runs fine.  It is the only BT stack running.  I don't have Logitech Setpoint software.
 
It appears to me that your Setpoint software is being overwritten by the CSR BT Aptx software which loads after Setpoint on your PC. 
 
I'm confident that you can run your Logitech wireless mouse with its dongle and the Azio dongle with the CSR Aptx codec.  You should test this out.  I'm afraid the Setpoint software won't run as you want due to system (memory???) conflicts with the CSR software.  I think you'll have to live with this.  Turbobb has mentioned he has similar problems with Setpoint and CSR software running simultaneously.
 
Keep your receipts for the accessories you are buying for your computer.  You may have to return them.
 
I think you now realize your current PC and Setpoint won't work with your Azio dongle running CSR BT Aptx.  You can run one or the other.  Win 8.1 may be better for you if you have BT built-in to your computer (PC, laptop, or tablet).  If you like Setpoint software, then ask Logitech if it is supported in Win 8.1.  If it is, then you should have a graceful solution, maybe. 

 

[Giogio]

Hmmm, it is pretty much unlikely that I am gonna change OS for my mouse. Unless I will ever find a super wonderful perfect mouse for which I'll fall in love due to ergonomics and functions.
 
Anyway, no, SetPoint does NOT crash nor has ANY problem EVER.
And it is not "overwritten" if by that you mean something permanent.
What happens is just that when I install CSR Harmony, SetPoint does not see my mouse anymore.
Just that, nothing else than that.
 
It is not a crash. SetPoint still works perfectly and can manage all other devices I may have connected with cable or with radio frequency.
But it just stop seeing the mouse. The mouse does not exist anymore for SetPoint, because CSR closes it in its own Stack and does not allow Setpoint to see it.

 

[Class D]

Well, GioGio, you have a conflict with Setpoint and the CSR BT Aptx codec.  Apparently, the wireless mouse works, but you can't control it with Setpoint.  You'll have to prioritize what you want to run on your PC.  BTW, you'd love Win 8.1.  It's a great OS.  Perhaps one of the new Microsoft BT mice will work for you.

 

[Giogio]

I know I will love 8.1 but I wait till I have money and then I buy something with touch screen, probably a Dell XPS 18 or something similar by Lenovo.
I love touch screens.
Sometimes when I use my smartphone too much, then I try to touch the display of my notebook before remembering it is not touch.

 

[Class D]

I can attest to the fact that if you have a display that you can use your finger, a pen, or a trackpad for input, then you don't really need a mouse.  Although I still like navigating a browser with a mouse.
 
It appears that the Dell XPS 18 has BT built-in.  Unless Dell has also included the BT Aptx codec, you may still need your Azio dongle for the CSR BT stack.  As far as I can tell, Win 8.1 permits more than one BT stack to run simultaneously.  In my case, I have to disable the built-in BT that runs all my wireless devices, plug in the Azio dongle, connect with an Aptx sink, and then re-enable the built-n BT to use the HID devices.  If I remember to disable the built-in Bluetooth before I shutdown, then this speeds up the process the next time I power up.

 

[OPTiK]

I just wanted to input some information pertaining to the Azio USB dongle. When I first got my BackBeat Pro headphones I connected to my Surface Pro 3 BT (4.0) and I didn't notice a difference between the audio quality when I use either my SP3 or Azio dongle BT connection. I then went and uninstalled the Azio Harmony driver. I tried listening to my BBPs today and noticed that the volume was oddly low compared to the audio coming out of my phone (HTC One M7 - AptX). I reinstalled the Harmony software with the Azio dongle connected and connect the BBP to the Azio BT once it completed installing. I re-ran my test and the audio sound levels were the same. Both the Azio dongle and my phone sounded the same when playing the same song. I then went and paired the BBP to the SP3 BT and tested again. Sound was the same! I believe that once you install the Harmony software it translates over to other BT connections.

When you thi8nk about it, it makes sense that this could work. What makes the Azio BT (4.0) different from other 4.0 BT controllers? To my knowledge BT protocols are standardized. Can someone test my theory and verify my results?

 

[Class D]

Hi Optik,
 
I have noticed the same thing with my Microsoft Surface Pro 2.  Once you install the Harmony software on the Surface Pro it seems improve Sound Quality and latency (lip synch is really good), although there is nothing that tells me that CSR Aptx is connected to my sink (which is also Aptx).  I have found that the SP2 has a propensity to load its BT stack prior to the Azio BT stack.  Even though you have 2 BT symbols in the system tray, the CSR BT symbol is grayed out and there is no CSR splash screen to tell you that the Aptx codec is running.  To insure that I am running with the CSR Aptx codec, I must first disable the SP2 BT and then insert my Azio dongle.  Once the Azio dongle sees my Aptx sink (I have several of them) and connects, then I get the CSR Aptx splash screen.  The CSR BT symbol in the system tray is the only one and its no longer grayed out.  SQ and latency are ideal in this condition.
 
If I want to use my other BT HID devices, then I re-enable BT on my SP2 and I get my BT mouse and keyboard back.  I will see both BT symbols in the system tray.  SQ and latency remain in the ideal condition.  It's the best of all worlds, the Azio radio runs the audio and the SP2 BT runs my BT devices perfectly.
 
Now, I must say that if I never plug in my Azio dongle and just run with the SP2 BT, the audio is almost ideal.  The loss of SQ or latency are barely perceptible.  I'm very satisfied with the performance of the Surface Pro's BT alone.
 
I have two other observations similar to yours regarding your HTC One M7 and Aptx.  One, I have a Nokia Lumia 635 with Win 8.1 (cyan).  Microsoft has not yet released the Aptx codec for Win 8.1.  The next release (denim) will have it.  Nevertheless, the SQ and latency of the phone is close to ideal when connected to any of my Aptx sinks.  When I connect my phone to a non-Aptx sink, the SQ and latency is poor.  Two, when I connect any of my iOS devices which use Apple's BT to any of my Aptx sinks, the SQ and latency are near ideal.  I'm quite satisfied listening to my iAnything when connected to any of my Aptx sinks. 
 
I looked at the spec for your Plantronics BackBeat Pro headphones.  The spec lists BT v4.0 + Enhanced Data Rate (EDR) A2DP, but no CSR Aptx.  I don't think you will ever get the CSR Aptx splash screen when you connect, although your SQ and latency should be close to ideal due to the EDR - A2DP of your headphones.
 
My conclusion is that purchasing a sink device, like your Plantronics BB2 Pro with BT v4.0 + EDR or an Aptx device, will give you near ideal SQ and latency when connected to a recently manufactured BT source device like your HTC One M7 phone.  Moreover, if you have a BT source device that specifies the Aptx codec, you are assured of ideal SQ and latency when connected to an Aptx sink.
 
Thanks for sharing your observations with us.  

 

[OPTiK]

  Hi Optik,
 
I have noticed the same thing with my Microsoft Surface Pro 2.  Once you install the Harmony software on the Surface Pro it seems improve Sound Quality and latency (lip synch is really good), although there is nothing that tells me that CSR Aptx is connected to my sink (which is also Aptx).  I have found that the SP2 has a propensity to load its BT stack prior to the Azio BT stack.  Even though you have 2 BT symbols in the system tray, the CSR BT symbol is grayed out and there is no CSR splash screen to tell you that the Aptx codec is running.  To insure that I am running with the CSR Aptx codec, I must first disable the SP2 BT and then insert my Azio dongle.  Once the Azio dongle sees my Aptx sink (I have several of them) and connects, then I get the CSR Aptx splash screen.  The CSR BT symbol in the system tray is the only one and its no longer grayed out.  SQ and latency are ideal in this condition.
 
If I want to use my other BT HID devices, then I re-enable BT on my SP2 and I get my BT mouse and keyboard back.  I will see both BT symbols in the system tray.  SQ and latency remain in the ideal condition.  It's the best of all worlds, the Azio radio runs the audio and the SP2 BT runs my BT devices perfectly.
 
Now, I must say that if I never plug in my Azio dongle and just run with the SP2 BT, the audio is almost ideal.  The loss of SQ or latency are barely perceptible.  I'm very satisfied with the performance of the Surface Pro's BT alone.
 
I have two other observations similar to yours regarding your HTC One M7 and Aptx.  One, I have a Nokia Lumia 635 with Win 8.1 (cyan).  Microsoft has not yet released the Aptx codec for Win 8.1.  The next release (denim) will have it.  Nevertheless, the SQ and latency of the phone is close to ideal when connected to any of my Aptx sinks.  When I connect my phone to a non-Aptx sink, the SQ and latency is poor.  Two, when I connect any of my iOS devices which use Apple's BT to any of my Aptx sinks, the SQ and latency are near ideal.  I'm quite satisfied listening to my iAnything when connected to any of my Aptx sinks. 
 
I looked at the spec for your Plantronics BackBeat Pro headphones.  The spec lists BT v4.0 + Enhanced Data Rate (EDR) A2DP, but no CSR Aptx.  I don't think you will ever get the CSR Aptx splash screen when you connect, although your SQ and latency should be close to ideal due to the EDR - A2DP of your headphones.
 
My conclusion is that purchasing a sink device, like your Plantronics BB2 Pro with BT v4.0 + EDR or an Aptx device, will give you near ideal SQ and latency when connected to a recently manufactured BT source device like your HTC One M7 phone.  Moreover, if you have a BT source device that specifies the Aptx codec, you are assured of ideal SQ and latency when connected to an Aptx sink.
 
Thanks for sharing your observations with us.  

 
Hi Class D,
 
The BBP (http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/backbeat-pro) actually do support AptX (not sure why the website doesn't say). It has the logo on the box, and the AptX splash screen appears when I connect it to my SP3 via the Azio dongle. The fact that I noticed a volume difference when the Harmony driver was installed vs uninstalled leads me to believe that the CSR drivers are being shared with the SP3 BT hardware. The extra BT icon that controls devices connect to the Azio dongle located in the notification area does disappear when I remove the Azio dongle, but if you look at the windows services the CSR services (4) are still running in the background.
 
EDIT: AptX logo can be found here: http://www.plantronics.com/us/product/backbeat-pro#overview

 

[Class D]

Hello Optik,
 
Yes, I see it now.  The Plantronics BackBeat Pro does have CSR's Aptx.  The CSR logo is at the bottom of the home page.  I found it curious that they didn't include the Aptx codec within their BT spec.  Aptx is an improved alternative for the Sub-band Coding, SBC, codec originally written by Philips for Bluetooth years ago.  Aptx would never be used in the same way the AAC or MP3 codecs are.
 
I believe you are correct to say that once installed, the CSR codec can run on the BT radio built-in to Microsoft's Surface Pro when the Azio dongle is removed.  In the case of the Surface Pro 2, BT is handled by the Marvell AVASTAR Bluetooth Radio Adapter.  However, there isn't a way to verify that the Aptx codec is actually running in the BT stack.  At the moment, it's a mystery.

 

[Giogio]

  Hello Optik,
 
Yes, I see it now.  The Plantronics BackBeat Pro does have CSR's Aptx.  The CSR logo is at the bottom of the home page.  I found it curious that they didn't include the Aptx codec within their BT spec.  Aptx is an improved alternative for the Sub-band Coding, SBC, codec originally written by Philips for Bluetooth years ago.  Aptx would never be used in the same way the AAC or MP3 codecs are.
 
I believe you are correct to say that once installed, the CSR codec can run on the BT radio built-in to Microsoft's Surface Pro when the Azio dongle is removed.  In the case of the Surface Pro 2, BT is handled by the Marvell AVASTAR Bluetooth Radio Adapter.  However, there isn't a way to verify that the Aptx codec is actually running in the BT stack.  At the moment, it's a mystery.

Yes there is a way. When you connect an Aptx receiver (speakers, headphones) to an Aptx Transmitter, you ALWAYS get some kind of notifications. In Android is a popup which says "Connected to an Aptx device", under CSR Harmony is the APTX logo, and for adapters which are independent, like the Sennheiser BTD 500 dongle or the Avantree Saturn and Priva, you can see which Codec is being used by which colour or how many times does the LED light flashes.
I am sincerely very sceptic about the possibility to get Aptx just by installing CSR Harmony on any computer which has BT. If it was so easy, CSR Harmony would be heavy bittorrented
I think it must be programmed in the BT Chip somehow.
But if you get it to work just like that, please let me know.
A way to try if the transmitter is really using APTX is with a receiver which give a feedback about that.
I know just two which do that, the Avantree Saturn (and Saturn Pro), which can be set as Transmitter or as receiver, and the Harman Kardon BT headphones. THey are the only headphones I am aware of, which have a LED which blinks differently according to which codec is being used.
 
About the Plantronics, I do not know if I already wrote it in this thread, but, they do not only have Aptx, they have LOW LATENCY Aptx. Normal Aptx has got a better latency than SBC, 100ms. But LL Aptx has got 35ms latency.
You need anyway a transmitter which uses the same codec. I know only 3 which do that: Avantree Priva, Avantree Saturn Pro, and Telme2 TosBlue.
The Plantronics are also Class 1. WIth a Class 1 transmitter they can achieve 100mt range. Not bad
But with a normal class 2 transmitter they have a wonderful range... Or let's say, the range finishes where the transmitter gives up.

 

[james444]

Got a new aptX headset via Amazon, the QCY QY3 (odd name). Its sound quality is very good, a bit on the warm side compared to the more analytical LG BTS1, but with good extension and driving power. Actually, it's the loudest aptX headset with 3.5mm HPO I've heard so far.
 
However, on the downside, it needs a proprietary charging cable (USB to 3.5mm, included), and at least on my unit L/R stereo channels are reversed. The latter's no big deal for me, since Neutron Player offers a "reverse stereo" setting, but due to this flaw I can only recommend the QCY QY3 with reservation.
 
Sound quality ranking of all aptX headsets with 3.5mm HPO I've heard so far (not considering stock earpieces):
 

LG BTS1 - highly recommended   ​	QCY QY3 - recommended (with reservation)   ​	Samsung HS3000 - recommended   ​
HTC BH S600 - not recommended   ​	​	​
​	​	​
​	​	​
​	​	​

 

[Class D]

James444,
 
Thank you for your evaluation of these BT sink devices.  Can you tell us what your BT Aptx source (transmitter) is?

 

[Giogio]

  James444,
 
Thank you for your evaluation of these BT sink devices.  Can you tell us what your BT Aptx source (transmitter) is?

If he uses Neutron Player it must be an Android Smartphone.
Neutron is the best Music Player for Android.
Also the most expensive.
I also use it.
The difference in sound quality even with the very famous Poweramp is just simply very noticeable.
But the EQ is difficult to use, it is parametric and only 4 bands.
So, not for everybody. Althoug there are two presets which work quite good.
 
Anyway I think they are Earphones, or In-Ear Headphones.
As far as I know, Headset is only the one to make phone calls, which you put only in one ear.
 
And, I am not sure this adds much to the "opinions about APTX" theme.
It is more of a comparison of earphones.
Which is pretty interesting but I suppose that another thread would be better for it.
With maybe some more info about how each of this sound, the difference, pros and cons, why you reccoment and why not.
 
Cheers

 

[james444]

  James444,
 
Thank you for your evaluation of these BT sink devices.  Can you tell us what your BT Aptx source (transmitter) is?

 
I have two, a Creative X-Fi3 and a Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version). This evaluation has been done with the SGS3.
 

  If he uses Neutron Player it must be an Android Smartphone.
Neutron is the best Music Player for Android.
Also the most expensive.
I also use it.
The difference in sound quality even with the very famous Poweramp is just simply very noticeable.
But the EQ is difficult to use, it is parametric and only 4 bands.
So, not for everybody. Althoug there are two presets which work quite good.
 
Anyway I think they are Earphones, or In-Ear Headphones.
As far as I know, Headset is only the one to make phone calls, which you put only in one ear.
 
And, I am not sure this adds much to the "opinions about APTX" theme.
It is more of a comparison of earphones.
Which is pretty interesting but I suppose that another thread would be better for it.
With maybe some more info about how each of this sound, the difference, pros and cons, why you reccoment and why not.
 
Cheers

 
You didn't bother to read my earlier posts, did you?

 
In short, aptX is great and I predicted more than two years ago that it will become a success.
However, it still depends on implementation, e.g. the aptX enabled HTC BH S600 sounds decidedly worse than the non-aptX Sony MW1.