Kenny Powers
New Head-Fier
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OPPO HA-2 is amazing with these. Love the bass boost thiis little AMP/DAC gives and it has plenty of power to drive them even on low gain.
What Amp/ DAC you will take with Fostex TH-X00?
- Thread starter iMusicLover
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Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
I have the mahogany TH-X00's, and I've 1 DAC (Peachtree Audio DAC-ITx), the sound of which I rather like; and one DAC/amp, the FiiO 10K (which sounded pretty good IMO).
I've used them with a number of headphone amps, including Burson Soloist; M Stage HPA-1; Lake People G-109A; and iFi iCAN. The TH-X00's are relatively easy to drive (not a difficult load) and seem to have pretty amazing bass no matter what amp you use.
Unfortunately, they also seem to sound rather bright in the upper midrange & treble on all the amps, even on my most neutral amp (the G-109A). Admittedly, I'm ultra-sensitive to brightness, so it may just be me. But it's enough that I'm putting them up for sale, after only listening to them for a couple hours, total.
I've used them with a number of headphone amps, including Burson Soloist; M Stage HPA-1; Lake People G-109A; and iFi iCAN. The TH-X00's are relatively easy to drive (not a difficult load) and seem to have pretty amazing bass no matter what amp you use.
Unfortunately, they also seem to sound rather bright in the upper midrange & treble on all the amps, even on my most neutral amp (the G-109A). Admittedly, I'm ultra-sensitive to brightness, so it may just be me. But it's enough that I'm putting them up for sale, after only listening to them for a couple hours, total.
Vigrith
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I suffer from the same problem when it comes to harshness in the upper frequencies, it's pretty dire. Whilst I've unfortunately not had the chance to audition the X00s I've found, as have many others before me, that tubes help quite a fair bit when it comes to taming brightness. Now of course you might not want to purchase a hybrid/OTL just to fit the X00s but personally that's the biggest reason I diversify - I'd much rather own an SS amp, a hybrid and then an OTL than own 3 (or however many) solid states.
I'm not a big fan of using tubes to "fix" headphones but when you're as sensitive to treble as I am (and seemingly you are too) there isn't much choice so I figured I'd give a try. They've even managed to allow me to enjoy HD800s and my T90 Jubilee that I previously owned as a collector's item exclusively and not die from treble murder within 5 minutes.
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
Vigrith, I truly appreciate your comment. You articulated one of the central dilemmas of this audio hobby. I absolutely could do as you suggest and "fix" the bright headphones w/a new or used HP amp that uses tubes; also w/cable mods and endless other tweaks. Believe me, the thought occurred to me. The TH-X00s have world-class bass and are beautiful to look at. I bought them because I planned to listen to them forever.
However, I've learned the hard way that some things are not meant to be. Twice in the past, I wasted much money & time trying to salvage an overly bright component--both times it was speakers, once many years ago, and again more recently, with a set of powered desktop speakers. Both times I kept putting new or used components in the signal chain ahead of the bright speakers (because I liked the speakers & it was inconvenient to ditch them).
Yet both times, when I finally called it quits and replaced the speakers with a pair carefully chosen because they were less bright & worked better in my system--the relief was so immediate, I can hardly describe it. In fact, on both occasions, my love of audio (& my never-ending love of music) accelerated greatly once the bright component was gone.
You mention HD800s. While I am intensely curious about these headphones (how could I not want to hear the best of the best?) I know better than to even try. My ears, which seem to be connected to my sense of well-being, cannot tolerate "accurate," "revealing" equipment, even the very best.
So my plan is the sell the TH-X00s for a fair price (hoping they go to someone who loves them); and I'll next try the ZMF Omnis, which from everything I've read, have a high chance of "hitting the sweet spot" for me...
BTW, my other headphones are the Fidelio X2s, which sound really lovely to me, but are not very resolving. I'll never sell those, but would like to have a 2nd set of 'phones that are also warm, euphonic, and with great bass--but that does everything at a higher level (thus the ZMF Omnis)
However, I've learned the hard way that some things are not meant to be. Twice in the past, I wasted much money & time trying to salvage an overly bright component--both times it was speakers, once many years ago, and again more recently, with a set of powered desktop speakers. Both times I kept putting new or used components in the signal chain ahead of the bright speakers (because I liked the speakers & it was inconvenient to ditch them).
Yet both times, when I finally called it quits and replaced the speakers with a pair carefully chosen because they were less bright & worked better in my system--the relief was so immediate, I can hardly describe it. In fact, on both occasions, my love of audio (& my never-ending love of music) accelerated greatly once the bright component was gone.
You mention HD800s. While I am intensely curious about these headphones (how could I not want to hear the best of the best?) I know better than to even try. My ears, which seem to be connected to my sense of well-being, cannot tolerate "accurate," "revealing" equipment, even the very best.
So my plan is the sell the TH-X00s for a fair price (hoping they go to someone who loves them); and I'll next try the ZMF Omnis, which from everything I've read, have a high chance of "hitting the sweet spot" for me...
BTW, my other headphones are the Fidelio X2s, which sound really lovely to me, but are not very resolving. I'll never sell those, but would like to have a 2nd set of 'phones that are also warm, euphonic, and with great bass--but that does everything at a higher level (thus the ZMF Omnis)
Vigrith
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Indeed, I feel like if you have no other particularly compelling reason to want to keep the bright components around (eg. as I have done for years with my T90s as I hold them as a collector's item) then just spending your money on something that's truly a better match for your tastes will be invariably better. I absolutely concur with your definition of musical joy, when headphones are described as "accurate", "revealing", even "detailed" at times that's a huge red flag for me. I have not auditioned the Omnis or any of ZMF's headphones unfortunately as I reside outside the United States but from what I've read I'm pretty sure the Omnis would fit you.
Regarding the HD800 as you seem to suffer from the same as I do, and trust me I know it is a crux when you are as serious about the love of music as we both appear to be, I think it is smart of you to avoid them - you won't enjoy them, even with intentionally warm tubes on OTL amps they can be a bit too much to the point where it's just not worth it. I own them because I bought them second hand from a close friend who offered them to me for a price I could not refuse. They are still a fine addition to any collection in my opinion, but they will not get any head time in your situation I'm sure. When they came out in 2009 they were incredible, nowadays for people with our sonic preferences I know for a fact there is better out there - maybe not for cheaper, but definitely around its price point (eg. the Ethers, LCD-2s and now the new Focal Elear and Kennerton Vali come to mind instantly).
This is also the reason I like tube components, I have a tube DAC (if I ever hit the lottery I'm ordering a Lampizator Golden Gate!) and a few hybrid/OTL amps, solid state has always sounded a little too edgy for my liking and my main SS amps are the HA-200 monoblocks which are very musical and slightly on the warmer side in my opinion, maybe you'd enjoy them too. You seem to prefer solid state amplification however based off of your collection, though if you don't mind me suggesting something, the Mjolnir 2 that Schiit builds is exceptional - not only is it very responsive to tube rolling it also can be turned to full SS by swapping in their LISST tubes, it's heaven when it comes to tweaking the sound to your liking with any and all headphones. It's definitely the most flexible and versatile audio device I've ever dealt with though it is quite expensive; it's genius.
That said, my favourite headphones I personally own are the latest revision LCD-2s, I've been looking to purchase one of the iterations of the X00s ever since their first Massdrop run, they are beautiful and I want some good closed cans to use at the office but if they are bright that's quite offputting, same reason I've been talking myself out of purchasing the TH900s for years now. Shame too, the Purplehearts would fit my desk perfectly, I love purple, I may give the Ebony a go if I can spare the money as someone I respect a lot as described them as being very smooth sounding and not strident at all, much less relentless in the mid/highs.
PS: I apologise for the slight off topic, I have no intention of potentially derailing the thread.
Regarding the HD800 as you seem to suffer from the same as I do, and trust me I know it is a crux when you are as serious about the love of music as we both appear to be, I think it is smart of you to avoid them - you won't enjoy them, even with intentionally warm tubes on OTL amps they can be a bit too much to the point where it's just not worth it. I own them because I bought them second hand from a close friend who offered them to me for a price I could not refuse. They are still a fine addition to any collection in my opinion, but they will not get any head time in your situation I'm sure. When they came out in 2009 they were incredible, nowadays for people with our sonic preferences I know for a fact there is better out there - maybe not for cheaper, but definitely around its price point (eg. the Ethers, LCD-2s and now the new Focal Elear and Kennerton Vali come to mind instantly).
This is also the reason I like tube components, I have a tube DAC (if I ever hit the lottery I'm ordering a Lampizator Golden Gate!) and a few hybrid/OTL amps, solid state has always sounded a little too edgy for my liking and my main SS amps are the HA-200 monoblocks which are very musical and slightly on the warmer side in my opinion, maybe you'd enjoy them too. You seem to prefer solid state amplification however based off of your collection, though if you don't mind me suggesting something, the Mjolnir 2 that Schiit builds is exceptional - not only is it very responsive to tube rolling it also can be turned to full SS by swapping in their LISST tubes, it's heaven when it comes to tweaking the sound to your liking with any and all headphones. It's definitely the most flexible and versatile audio device I've ever dealt with though it is quite expensive; it's genius.
That said, my favourite headphones I personally own are the latest revision LCD-2s, I've been looking to purchase one of the iterations of the X00s ever since their first Massdrop run, they are beautiful and I want some good closed cans to use at the office but if they are bright that's quite offputting, same reason I've been talking myself out of purchasing the TH900s for years now. Shame too, the Purplehearts would fit my desk perfectly, I love purple, I may give the Ebony a go if I can spare the money as someone I respect a lot as described them as being very smooth sounding and not strident at all, much less relentless in the mid/highs.
PS: I apologise for the slight off topic, I have no intention of potentially derailing the thread.
Pharmaboy
Headphoneus Supremus
At the risk of further derailing this thread, I must reply to your comments about tubes. I absolutely love tubes, Vigrith, but they no longer my life. Let me explain...
30+ years ago, when I had a large high-end audio system in the living room, the speakers (Vandersteen 4s) encouraged bi-amping, if not tri-amping. I learned the the best sound was SS for the subwoofers (high damping factor/great bass quality) and a robust, 100W tube amp on the mids/uppers. I further learned this particular tube amplifier allowed tube substitutions of other tetrodes for the standard EL-34s, so I experimented with that. The ultimate mod was running the entire amp in triode mode, with the trade-off of a 50% drop in output (to 50W/ch), but with a gorgeous tone of sound. I also had a high quality tube preamp driving the entire system--one that produced bass nearly as good as any SS preamp, but with that superior, rich tonality of tubes in the midrange and treble-- + top quality TT & cartridge. That system remains the best audio reproduction I've ever heard.
However, 30 years later, all that gear is still in storage. Now all my listening is done on a desktop system which is necessarily much smaller in size & scope; space is rather tight. I've carefully selected components for the sound quality I prefer, ie, Swan M200 MKIII powered speakers (easily the best desktop speakers I've heard, in pure audio terms); M Stage HPA-1 as pre-amp (very musical); Audio GD NOS 19 (it will arrive in 1-2 weeks); subwoofer; and favorite HP amp (Lake People G-109A--balanced-sounding, neutral, not bright at all).
FYI, the upgrade to a quality R-2R NOS DAC is something I've planned for some time. Digital has never quite satisifed me sonically, compared to analog; this is my attempt to narrow that gap.
Much as I love tubes, their heat and somewhat larger component size are deal-breakers. I've experimented w/a tube buffer (iFi iTube) that theoretically should allow me to "warm up" the signal with a tube...but sadly, even used strictly as a buffer, this device slightly reduced deep & mid-bass (though it did sound very nice).
I may at some point experiment with a tube, or hybrid tube/SS headphone amp. But that's in the future (money must be made, to be spent!)
30+ years ago, when I had a large high-end audio system in the living room, the speakers (Vandersteen 4s) encouraged bi-amping, if not tri-amping. I learned the the best sound was SS for the subwoofers (high damping factor/great bass quality) and a robust, 100W tube amp on the mids/uppers. I further learned this particular tube amplifier allowed tube substitutions of other tetrodes for the standard EL-34s, so I experimented with that. The ultimate mod was running the entire amp in triode mode, with the trade-off of a 50% drop in output (to 50W/ch), but with a gorgeous tone of sound. I also had a high quality tube preamp driving the entire system--one that produced bass nearly as good as any SS preamp, but with that superior, rich tonality of tubes in the midrange and treble-- + top quality TT & cartridge. That system remains the best audio reproduction I've ever heard.
However, 30 years later, all that gear is still in storage. Now all my listening is done on a desktop system which is necessarily much smaller in size & scope; space is rather tight. I've carefully selected components for the sound quality I prefer, ie, Swan M200 MKIII powered speakers (easily the best desktop speakers I've heard, in pure audio terms); M Stage HPA-1 as pre-amp (very musical); Audio GD NOS 19 (it will arrive in 1-2 weeks); subwoofer; and favorite HP amp (Lake People G-109A--balanced-sounding, neutral, not bright at all).
FYI, the upgrade to a quality R-2R NOS DAC is something I've planned for some time. Digital has never quite satisifed me sonically, compared to analog; this is my attempt to narrow that gap.
Much as I love tubes, their heat and somewhat larger component size are deal-breakers. I've experimented w/a tube buffer (iFi iTube) that theoretically should allow me to "warm up" the signal with a tube...but sadly, even used strictly as a buffer, this device slightly reduced deep & mid-bass (though it did sound very nice).
I may at some point experiment with a tube, or hybrid tube/SS headphone amp. But that's in the future (money must be made, to be spent!)
I've had my -X00's (mahogony) for a little while now.
Long enough to "burn in" - if you believe that kind of thing.
I had a cheap and cheerrful Yulong U100 DAC/amp when I got these cans, and they sounded pretty good. Warm and mellow.
I have only tried / owned one other set iof closed HP's in the last decade - and I hated them.
A few weeks back I got my m9XX, and the improvement was large.
Much more revealing and vastly improved sound stage. I don't find the trebble harsh or particularly sibilant - but then my old ears are far from sensitive.
I'd still like to try a Schiit Stack, but can only try what I buy (no stores locally, don't know any other HP enthusiasts around here).
I've ordered a Feliks Elise, to see how they sound with a decent tube amp.
Meanwhile I will be trying some electrostatics, and I'd also like to give planars a go.
I think I'll keep the TH-x00's long-term regardless, even if it's just to look at. They are a great looking bit of gear.
Long enough to "burn in" - if you believe that kind of thing.
I had a cheap and cheerrful Yulong U100 DAC/amp when I got these cans, and they sounded pretty good. Warm and mellow.
I have only tried / owned one other set iof closed HP's in the last decade - and I hated them.
A few weeks back I got my m9XX, and the improvement was large.
Much more revealing and vastly improved sound stage. I don't find the trebble harsh or particularly sibilant - but then my old ears are far from sensitive.
I'd still like to try a Schiit Stack, but can only try what I buy (no stores locally, don't know any other HP enthusiasts around here).
I've ordered a Feliks Elise, to see how they sound with a decent tube amp.
Meanwhile I will be trying some electrostatics, and I'd also like to give planars a go.
I think I'll keep the TH-x00's long-term regardless, even if it's just to look at. They are a great looking bit of gear.
ProfFalkin
Headphoneus Supremus
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Hey Spork!
I was considering the Elise as well (or a MP-301 MK3) to pair with my TH-X00 mahogany. How did you find that pairing? I haven't received the X00's yet, but keep reading they can be bright. I am looking to tame that w/ tubes. Let me know what you think please!
Thanks
I'm very happy with the pairing.
In my (somewhat limited) experience these HPs scale really well with amplification, so it's worthwhile investing in a giid quality amp to drive them.
I also got some HE-400i planars, which are well regarded at the $, and while they edge out the TH-X00s on detail and soundstage the TH-X00s heve a fuller sound, and the bass is sublime with this amp.
The Elise is rated for 32 - 600z and the TH-X00s are only 25z, but Lukasz (Feliks) assured me they would work fine together - and they do.
One or two other ppl. on here have listened to the combo and thought it sounded surprisingly good. My son thinks it's the best he's ever heard.
My Elise took just under a month from order to delivery.
Hope this helps.
In my (somewhat limited) experience these HPs scale really well with amplification, so it's worthwhile investing in a giid quality amp to drive them.
I also got some HE-400i planars, which are well regarded at the $, and while they edge out the TH-X00s on detail and soundstage the TH-X00s heve a fuller sound, and the bass is sublime with this amp.
The Elise is rated for 32 - 600z and the TH-X00s are only 25z, but Lukasz (Feliks) assured me they would work fine together - and they do.
One or two other ppl. on here have listened to the combo and thought it sounded surprisingly good. My son thinks it's the best he's ever heard.
My Elise took just under a month from order to delivery.
Hope this helps.
ProfFalkin
Headphoneus Supremus
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My default amp for TH-XO0 is my vintage NAD 3020i. Lots of power with tone control which you can tame the bass or increase the treble. Using mimby as dac.
I'm using my Modi Multibit/Magni 2 Uber for my Purplehearts. So far, so good.
TjPhysicist
100+ Head-Fier
A using my x00 with idsd micro right now, but really want to warn up the sound with some tubes as well. Which ones r u thinking about? (There are a couple <$100 tube amps, so looking at those maybe)
ProfFalkin
Headphoneus Supremus
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I pulled the trigger on a Elise. I like it, but I'm really waiting to pair it with the ZMF Atticus and Eikon I have coming soon. Sound is good with the Teak too
Using Lyr with a Modi multibit on the purplehearts. I'm pretty happy with it, but the hd600s are amazing with the Lry.
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