[pillbox]

Hello! I’ve been a long-time lurker of these forums, having learned so much (and spent so much!) over the years.

I recently picked up the Meze Empyrean, and I have a few options for a DAC and amp setup, none of which seem to fulfill what is supposed to be an incredible experience. The clarity and soundstage just aren’t impressive - mids are a bit muddy, and soundstage is lacking. I even have a pair of Senn HD800s cans, and they didn’t blow me way either in the clarity department. My only conclusion is that I’m doing something wrong in my setup. They are definitely better, overall, than some of the lower-end/midrange cans I've used for a while, like my ATH-m50x or Sen HD600, but still lack that impact I've read so much about in how much better everything is.

Here is the equipment I’ve tried (in a variety of combinations, sometimes just the single DAC/Amp combo unit like the NuPrime, sometimes the Woo WA7 with the Topping unit as a DAC, or Schiit Bifrost as the DAC; I've tried through USB, optical and even standard headphone jack):
Windows 10
Software: Tidal (with the highest quality settings possible on the service)
Music: Wide variety, from classical to rap to EDM
NuPrime DAC 10H
Woo WA7
Schiit Magni 3
Schiit Bifrost 2 with Bifrost Multibit
TOPPING D50s DAC
iFi Micro iDSD Black Label DAC/Headphone Amp

So I come to you all with the big question of what the heck am I doing wrong?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So I come to you all with the big question of what the heck am I doing wrong?

It could be any thing or any number of things.

I recently picked up the Meze Empyrean...

First, it could be the headphone itself.

Here is the equipment I’ve tried (in a variety of combinations, sometimes just the single DAC/Amp combo unit like the NuPrime, sometimes the Woo WA7 with the Topping unit as a DAC, or Schiit Bifrost as the DAC; I've tried through USB, optical and even standard headphone jack):
Windows 10
Software: Tidal (with the highest quality settings possible on the service)
Music: Wide variety, from classical to rap to EDM
NuPrime DAC 10H
Woo WA7
Schiit Magni 3
Schiit Bifrost 2 with Bifrost Multibit
TOPPING D50s DAC
iFi Micro iDSD Black Label DAC/Headphone Amp

Or it could be some of the equipment here. I'm personally not a fan of the WA7. It seems cheap next to the amp-only WA6 but I'd much sooner get an AudioGD NFB-11 for half the price of this.

Not sure what the NuPrime and Magni3 sound like but the NuForce HDP was muddy on my HD600 compared to, well, everything else, and I eventually ended up with a Meier Cantate.2, while the Magni and Magni2 were a bit bright up top when cranked up, obscuring the midrange and bass.

....and I have a few options for a DAC and amp setup, none of which seem to fulfill what is supposed to be an incredible experience. The clarity and soundstage just aren’t impressive - mids are a bit muddy, and soundstage is lacking. I even have a pair of Senn HD800s cans, and they didn’t blow me way either in the clarity department. My only conclusion is that I’m doing something wrong in my setup. They are definitely better, overall, than some of the lower-end/midrange cans I've used for a while, like my ATH-m50x or Sen HD600, but still lack that impact I've read so much about in how much better everything is.

Still could be any number of things.

It could be the headphones, or wearing them too tight that you boost the lower frequencies making them muddy and pushing the low end (bass drum, bass guitar) and top end (cymbals, primarily) forward and you lose soundstage depth.

It could be ambient noise obscuring the low end and screwing with the midrange, and if it obscures the bass drum and bass guitar, you lose soundstage depth.

Your music might not even have sufficient imaging cues for the headphone to work with, apart from classical.

And if it sucks even with properly recorded classical in a quiet room, well...there's still what you expect headphones to do, but can't. I mean, they're two tiny transducers right outside your eardrums where one ear hears one channel. Even Crossfeed just lets both ears hear a range of frequencies across both channels while the HD800 angles the drivers like speakers have toe-in angles, but it's not going to recreate the sound of two large speakers over two meters away from you throwing sound all over an acoustically dampened room.

In short, while the HD800 can be considerably better than the HD600, there's the matter of how much better it can be. And that's about as good as it will get in some aspects, save for the AKG K1000. Or just blowing your money on actual speakers that will sit 2m from you, 1m away from the acoustically dampened walls behind and flanking them, and hit your whole body with sound giving some tactile dimension to the music like how the bass drums feel like they're kicking your chest even when the low end isn't boosted excessively at the lower range nor extending into the midrange, while all the sound is laid out in a room as two ears hear two channels.

 

[moriez]

@pillbox

One explanation is that you may have expected too much from what high-end headphones are about. Another is you have not found the right synergy yet. I can't make recommendations for these headphones but can suggest to go over the Empyrean thread. For sure there are already many amp and DAC recommendations there or you can just ask this very question.

 

[GREQ]

Hello! I’ve been a long-time lurker of these forums, having learned so much (and spent so much!) over the years.

I recently picked up the Meze Empyrean, and I have a few options for a DAC and amp setup, none of which seem to fulfill what is supposed to be an incredible experience. The clarity and soundstage just aren’t impressive - mids are a bit muddy, and soundstage is lacking. I even have a pair of Senn HD800s cans, and they didn’t blow me way either in the clarity department. My only conclusion is that I’m doing something wrong in my setup. They are definitely better, overall, than some of the lower-end/midrange cans I've used for a while, like my ATH-m50x or Sen HD600, but still lack that impact I've read so much about in how much better everything is.

Here is the equipment I’ve tried (in a variety of combinations, sometimes just the single DAC/Amp combo unit like the NuPrime, sometimes the Woo WA7 with the Topping unit as a DAC, or Schiit Bifrost as the DAC; I've tried through USB, optical and even standard headphone jack):
Windows 10
Software: Tidal (with the highest quality settings possible on the service)
Music: Wide variety, from classical to rap to EDM
NuPrime DAC 10H
Woo WA7
Schiit Magni 3
Schiit Bifrost 2 with Bifrost Multibit
TOPPING D50s DAC
iFi Micro iDSD Black Label DAC/Headphone Amp

So I come to you all with the big question of what the heck am I doing wrong?

I found the Empyrean to be pretty boring.
It is a very neutral headphone and doesn't do much else aside from producing sound incredibly accurately.
The soundstage is fairly ordinary and had a slightly closed-in sound for a huge open-back planar.

I think you might be looking for something with a lot more 'colour' or some special character to the sound presentation.
Unfortunately, the Empyrean's only real special character trait (aside from really pure audio reproduction) is that it's extremely comfortable to wear.

I find that headphones are more interesting when they're tuned specially or unusually, or do something unique or interesting that other headphones don't do.
I'm sure you've noticed the HD-800 has a huge soundstage, so if that's not doing it for you, then it's probably something else you're looking for, like deep rumbling sub-bass from a large closed-back biocellulose driver or the perfectly articulate and airy treble you can only get in an electrostatic headphone.
Sometimes it's these bigger unique differences that only once you hear give you that 'ah hah' moment.

If it's at all possible, I would recommend auditioning a wider range of high end headphones of various types and technologies to see what you like.

 

[Tsukuyomi]

I personally think you've chosen the wrong headphone for what you're expecting to experience. I think you should of demo'd more headphones in person before making such an investment.

 

[pillbox]

Thank you for the advice thus far, everyone. I'll try and address each of these.

I personally think you've chosen the wrong headphone for what you're expecting to experience. I think you should of demo'd more headphones in person before making such an investment.

Over the years I have owned dozens of headphones. I currently own Senn HD650, Senn HD800s, Fostex TR-X00 Mahogany, ATH M50x, Koss ESP/95X Electrostatic System, Audeze LCD-2, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, AKG K712 Pro. and a few Sony pairs I can't recall off the top of my head. I have indeed tried a wide variety of headphone+other types, including high end IEMs from Ety and Shure. I do not believe my problem is auditioning. Additionally, I have no near-by audio specialists that would even accommodate auditioning headphones and setups like that.

Each of these have their pros and cons. What I'm looking for is clarity and wide soundstage without losing the low-end of the spectrum. Thank you for the response.

I found the Empyrean to be pretty boring.
It is a very neutral headphone and doesn't do much else aside from producing sound incredibly accurately.
The soundstage is fairly ordinary and had a slightly closed-in sound for a huge open-back planar.

I think you might be looking for something with a lot more 'colour' or some special character to the sound presentation.
Unfortunately, the Empyrean's only real special character trait (aside from really pure audio reproduction) is that it's extremely comfortable to wear.

I find that headphones are more interesting when they're tuned specially or unusually, or do something unique or interesting that other headphones don't do.
I'm sure you've noticed the HD-800 has a huge soundstage, so if that's not doing it for you, then it's probably something else you're looking for, like deep rumbling sub-bass from a large closed-back biocellulose driver or the perfectly articulate and airy treble you can only get in an electrostatic headphone.
Sometimes it's these bigger unique differences that only once you hear give you that 'ah hah' moment.

If it's at all possible, I would recommend auditioning a wider range of high end headphones of various types and technologies to see what you like.

See above for the range.

Thank you for the suggestion; it may be there's another high end set out there with a better "ah ha!". Or I really do need to find a better matching DAC and Amp for these Meze cans.

@pillbox

One explanation is that you may have expected too much from what high-end headphones are about. Another is you have not found the right synergy yet. I can't make recommendations for these headphones but can suggest to go over the Empyrean thread. For sure there are already many amp and DAC recommendations there or you can just ask this very question.

I am currently sorting through that thread to see what I can learn. Thank you for the link.

 

[GShaikun]

Hello! I’ve been a long-time lurker of these forums, having learned so much (and spent so much!) over the years.

I recently picked up the Meze Empyrean, and I have a few options for a DAC and amp setup, none of which seem to fulfill what is supposed to be an incredible experience. The clarity and soundstage just aren’t impressive - mids are a bit muddy, and soundstage is lacking. I even have a pair of Senn HD800s cans, and they didn’t blow me way either in the clarity department. My only conclusion is that I’m doing something wrong in my setup. They are definitely better, overall, than some of the lower-end/midrange cans I've used for a while, like my ATH-m50x or Sen HD600, but still lack that impact I've read so much about in how much better everything is.

Here is the equipment I’ve tried (in a variety of combinations, sometimes just the single DAC/Amp combo unit like the NuPrime, sometimes the Woo WA7 with the Topping unit as a DAC, or Schiit Bifrost as the DAC; I've tried through USB, optical and even standard headphone jack):
Windows 10
Software: Tidal (with the highest quality settings possible on the service)
Music: Wide variety, from classical to rap to EDM
NuPrime DAC 10H
Woo WA7
Schiit Magni 3
Schiit Bifrost 2 with Bifrost Multibit
TOPPING D50s DAC
iFi Micro iDSD Black Label DAC/Headphone Amp

So I come to you all with the big question of what the heck am I doing wrong?

Im having a similar set of issues. I have great sound at my desk from a Lyr 3/multibit and my Hifiman HD560's. Decided to build "endgame set up", found a used pair of Focal Utopia's and an Auris HA2 Se both used Both being rated by many as a great match and knock out performance. The Headamp also had the right tubes rolled in, Mullards. The sound is of course VERY detailed and revealing, but lacks warmth and fullness that leads to pleasure. They wear me out, sometimes hurt Yes some things are extraordinary but fatigue inevitable, while I can work at my much lower cost desk set up all day and just enjoy them. I'm also stuck on next move, ditch the Focals or ditch the Auris. I spent two weeks making sure the Focals were broken in as they famously need 1-200 hours But when piano has too much klink and not enough of the woody richness something ain't right. A lot of work getting this stuff right!

 

[tesarpa]

My advice is to try any CD player instead of PC as the source. There is too many variables in the PC& software playback. I'm almost only streaming, but I keep CD player as the reference for comparison, when I do some changes in the chain and I want to make sure I did not mess it up.

 

[ADUHF]

Dunno if this makes any difference. But the Meze Empyrean appears fairly laid back in the upper mids and low treble... areas of the frequency range which can influence perception of detail and clarity.

If you're using a PC, you could try adjusting the levels in the upper mids / lower treble with a software EQ, like the Equalizer APO. Whether that'll fix what you're hearing, I can't say. The online source you're using for streaming could also be a factor.

The Empyrean is also a low impedance headphone at only 32 ohms. So you would generally want to pair it with a low impedance amp, with around 1 ohm output impedance, to keep any distortion to a minimum.

 

[Whazzzup]

Hd800S should sound impressive if you have a Good music player, dac, amp, and all interconnects. Meze not a fan, r2r schiit not a fan, don’t know any of the rest

 

[ADUHF]

NM

 

[Strayngs]

Empy‘s....for TOTL headphones are not the clean, clear, crisp type. It is about musicality. I would definitely recomend going a different direction with your choice in headphone. Utopia....jaw dropping clarity....intimate though....not a big soundstage. Look into the top offerings from Kennerton. The Thekk is my go to for what you are describing that you are missing.

 

[HBen]

Sorry to say but it seems like you made a very basic mistake: buying a high end headphone without having heard it first.
A typical recipe for disappointment.

 

[GShaikun]

Eyes wide open HBen, I knew the risks and at half price feel I can do the experiment see if I get somewhere or pass on to someone else for about the same money, still a good deal for them (and for me). It IS a lot of time, since Im not worried about the $'s and on that point I might agree with you

 

[der luda]

I can only say about these cans, read a lot about them ... then listened to the sample and was really disappointed.
not my profile at all