[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excellent analogy. It always surprises me how so many folks who definiitively state the differences between sources as being huge will not allow it to be tested under controlled testing - why not ? - if the differences between 2 sources are that big then detecting them blind woud be a cakewalk, and such differences when they do exist can be detected in blind testing. There are several ABX tests out there that do show audible differences, I just do not see the problem.

I'm pretty sure that I'd be able to tell between the two players in blind testing without a sweat. The difference is really quite big. Of course, I can't really prove this without you actually listening to the players yourself. I would definitely allow myself to go through controlled testing given the opportunity.

Again, this was one of the only times when switching player brought about such a big difference. The difference between the P8i and the CDX2 was much greater than the difference between the CD555/PS555 and the CDX2 despite the CD555/PS555 combination being a few times the P8i's price. It all boils down to different sound signatures. Don't tell me you can't tell the difference between a Grado and an AKG... Try convincing people that the whole Grado vs AKG sound is due to placebo

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif me neither! If you do hear differences then buy the stuf you think sounds best! if you don't hear any difference then save the money and do something nice with the money!

This a more reasonable statement. took you a while to come down to earth. Welcome back!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif This a more reasonable statement. took you a while to come down to earth. Welcome back!

Cherry picking my statements huh, you really are cheesy!
I said before that statement that the biggest improvemevent yet was because of the change of the interlinks!

Probably next upgrade(changing caps) could make even a bigger difference!

What's with earth anyway, in space we have much more room, excitement and a lot more to explore!

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't tell me you can't tell the difference between a Grado and an AKG... Try convincing people that the whole Grado vs AKG sound is due to placebo

I would not make such an assertion nor would many other people, when it comes to transducers i.e headphones and loudspeakers the measurable differences for such things are vast compared to measurable differences between sources or amps.

It is possible to find headphones with 5db spikes or troughs at a given frequency any "hifi" amp or CD player that behaved like that would be junked at the factory.

 

[jimholt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif The original averment was that cable makes a huge difference as in "soo much better". nm if you don't know the "wise men" who made assertion If you don't know anything about transmission theory, basic RLC network, I don't expect you to use anything but your ear to "measure" the difference. And sugar pill also works BTW. I never said I can't hear the difference, but to claim cable makes a HUGE difference is simply absurd.

The ear is much better to hear the difference in the context of your system. I was of the belief that cables didnt contribute much to the sound quality but noooooo not now. I suppose i am lucky to have heard some really good ones. Jim.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimholt /img/forum/go_quote.gif The ear is much better to hear the difference in the context of your system. I was of the belief that cables didnt contribute much to the sound quality but noooooo not now. I suppose i am lucky to have heard some really good ones. Jim.

you are not the only one with good cables nor are you the only one who can tell the difference between cables. And patrick is not the only one who have heard Nordust (my local dealer also carries it). There is different, and its not placebo, but its not that big. I would rather spend that kind of money on upgrading speaker/amp/CDP/listening room.

 

[audioengr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif only true on certain budget, your list wouldn't work if your budget for everything is $1k, nor would it work if your budget is $100K (i hope you don't suggest spending $50K on the source , so it depends. Without any premises, your conclusion is value-less. I did assume you equate priority with $ spent.

Good point. The answer is dependent on the total budget. I assume at least $6K for the system, including speakers.

STeve N.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif you are not the only one with good cables nor are you the only one who can tell the difference between cables. And patrick is not the only one who have heard Nordust (my local dealer also carries it). There is different, and its not placebo, but its not that big. I would rather spend that kind of money on upgrading speaker/amp/CDP/listening room.

Expensive cables are for people with expensive speakers/amps/CDPs/rooms. They're not targeted at people who can barely afford to upgrade their CDP. I'd only buy an expensive cable like the Nordost Valhalla or Transparent Cable Opus MM if I felt that my rig could do no better without a massive upgrade (ie $30k Transport). It doesn't mean that I will skimp on cables though. The 10% rule is a pretty good one to go by.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Expensive cables are for people with expensive speakers/amps/CDPs/rooms. They're not targeted at people who can barely afford to upgrade their CDP. I'd only buy an expensive cable like the Nordost Valhalla or Transparent Cable Opus MM if I felt that my rig could do no better without a massive upgrade (ie $30k Transport). It doesn't mean that I will skimp on cables though. The 10% rule is a pretty good one to go by.

I'm using Benchmark DAC1 with computer as transport. My Cary transport costs 10 times more and it makes the smallest difference in my system. Half a year ago I couldn't even hear a difference unless both transports were using different power cords! Computer + Valhalla power cord sounded better than Cary + Vishnu.
Both are using Valhalla now and I still listen to my computer 90% of the time, it's good enough.

People are missing out when they think Valhalla is only for expensive gear. It's the opposite, the cheapest gear benefit the most. Valhalla works best with 128 kbps mp3 because it compensates for the muddiness. The silver plating does it. It makes mp3 sound very transparent.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 /img/forum/go_quote.gif People are missing out when they think Valhalla is only for expensive gear. It's the opposite, the cheapest gear benefit the most. Valhalla works best with 128 kbps mp3 because it compensates for the muddiness. The silver plating does it. It makes mp3 sound very transparent.

If that's the case, why not skip the Valhalla, get better gear and use losless?

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack /img/forum/go_quote.gif If that's the case, why not skip the Valhalla, get better gear and use losless?

Because I'm too poor to buy better gear... I would still need Valhalla with it anyway.

Valhalla makes real life sound muddy in comparison, everything blends together, I can't hear what people are saying. But with Valhalla I can hear it all, the muddiness is gone. Valhalla is like a hearing aid, it makes all sounds distinct so it's easier to focus on one sound.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder /img/forum/go_quote.gif Expensive cables are for people with expensive speakers/amps/CDPs/rooms. They're not targeted at people who can barely afford to upgrade their CDP. I'd only buy an expensive cable like the Nordost Valhalla or Transparent Cable Opus MM if I felt that my rig could do no better without a massive upgrade (ie $30k Transport). It doesn't mean that I will skimp on cables though. The 10% rule is a pretty good one to go by.

Not necesseraly true! A much better cable is able to let you hear much more details and often more musical. With cheaper gear it is not the cable that restricts the sound and it let you have room for future upgrades. Top end cables are not the bottleneck but sources are. The cables grow with the better gear!

E.g. The top end cables also are better in portraing the extended frequencies of sacd!

Buy second hand, this way you get top end cables for a reasonable price! For the secons hand price of the top end cables, you never get a cable wich performs te same!

Same goes for source and all other audio gear. Second hand will buy you a higher quality set!

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not necesseraly true! A much better cable is able to let you hear much more details and often more musical. With cheaper gear it is not the cable that restricts the sound and it let you have room for future upgrades. Top end cables are not the bottleneck but sources are. The cables grow with the better gear!

I definitely agree with you, but paying for cables that cost more than my speakers is slightly ridiculous (eg Transparent Opus MM). On the cheaper end, I have used $3000 cables with my Diva Utopia Be, but the performance and enjoyment gain vs my $500 cables wasn't worth the extra $2.5k, at least not at the time

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Buy second hand, this way you get top end cables for a reasonable price! For the second hand price of the top end cables, you never get a cable which performs the same! Same goes for source and all other audio gear. Second hand will buy you a higher quality set!

I have never bought very expensive gear second hand. My dad paid for all the gear and he wanted the reassurance of full dealership and manufacturer warranty, which used gear might not have. For example, there was a pair of second hand Sonus Faber Amati Anniversario for a mere $15k. They normally cost $25k, but we were worried that in the event of damage, we wouldn't be able to get compensation/warranty.

Also developing a good relationship with a dealer is always a good thing. I can say the JMLab/Chord/Esoteric dealer treat us pretty well because you don't sell expensive rigs everyday. I do know that it is a purely business relationship, but it's better than nothing. The next time I go back wanting an upgrade, at least I'll have some leverage and can get better prices. I might also be able to persuade them to allow some home demoing of new equipment before buying, which most dealerships in Hong Kong don't usually allow. There's nothing better than to be able to test gear at home in your rig before purchasing.

 

[Zorander]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack /img/forum/go_quote.gif If that's the case, why not skip the Valhalla, get better gear and use losless?

x2.

For the money required to buy a set of Valhalla cables, I can get a high-end system and enjoy listening on it more, even with el-cheapo BJC cables.

 

[stvn758]

Am I right in thinking the majority of the sound quality is coming from the DAC?

Using a Beresford Dac with my Sony CD changers has seen a great improvement in sound quality, how much more could I get switching to a Russ Andrews DAC 1/Headphone Amp or HeadRoom Desktop DAC/AMP?